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What did the ancient Hebrews believe happened after you die.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by celtic_crusader, Jun 13, 2002.

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  1. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    there are scriptures that look like there is life straight after death but they can be explained and they are far out weighed with the resurrection of the dead being the hope of Christianity. The promise is That we wont perish but have eternal life through the resurrection.

    It was believed in the old testament too. Hear is just old testament
    scriptures.

    Genesis 3:19
    In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the
    ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust
    shalt thou return.

    Everyone loves to say ,"yea , that's just the body that goes to dust. The
    thing is , the scripture doesn`t go on to say he receives our soul , it says
    that he receives our spirit which is simply the omnipresent breath of life.

    Job 7:21
    And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity?
    for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning,
    but I shall not be.

    why would jobs say to god , that god wont find him because he would be dead.
    If he would have been with god.

    Job 17
    15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it?
    16 They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in
    the dust.

    Job 34:15
    All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

    Psalm 104:29
    Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they
    die, and return to their dust.

    Ecclesiastes 3:20
    All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall
    return unto God who gave it.

    The spirit is not the soul of a man but rather the breath of life that god
    puts in a body and that creates a living soul.

    Genesis 2:7
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his
    nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.



    Isaiah 26:19
    Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake
    and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the
    earth shall cast out the dead.

    Daniel 12:2
    And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to
    everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Deuteronomy 31:16
    And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;

    2 Samuel 7:12
    And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I
    will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and
    I will establish his kingdom.

    Job 14:12
    So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall
    not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

    Psalm 13:3
    Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the
    sleep of death;

    I thaught I would throw this in as well as that one about not raising untill the new heaven and earth.

    It is new testament but I put it hear for those that believe the myth that jesus went into the underworld and freed the spirits there.(which is purely greek and eygptian mythology)

    This one in acts is way after jesus resurrection so jesus didn`t take david
    with him.

    Acts 2:34
    For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord
    said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    (That was after the resurrection.)

    Celtic
     
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  2. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    I'm not sure what they thought, but I'm pretty sure of what the Bible says, and I'm pretty sure that's what they knew. :) They went to Abraham's Bosom, to await the coming of the Messiah.
     
  3. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    Hi there Paule,
    if they go to ab`s bossem , what do you say about these scriptures?? ;)


    Deuteronomy 31:16
    And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;

    Job 7:21
    And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity?
    for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.



    Job 14:12
    So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall
    not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

    Psalm 13:3
    Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the
    sleep of death;

    Genesis 3:19
    In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the
    ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust
    shalt thou return.

    Ecclesiastes 3:20
    All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

    hey Paule , notice it doesn`t say we all go to one place , ab`s bossum. notice in hundreds of cases it says , "dust" and only once did jesus refer to it as ab`s bossem in a parable of all things brother.

    what do you think of some of these scriptures I have seen paule , can you tell me how what youv`e said makes sence to the scriptures hear ??

    peace

    Celtic.
     
  4. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    hi celtic - like your avatar, it's an Age of Kings animation :D hehe. I have that game...

    Anyway, you didn't really give me much of a context on these verses.. context is always important.

    Yeah, and? Notice, it does say sleep, not "thou shalt be obliviated with thy fathers" ;)

    Job 7:21
    Again, context... I think Job was referring to if God doesn't take away Job's iniquity, Job wasn't gonna have everlasting life. :)

    Context... Job is talking about how mortal man is. Not dealing with salvation, here, I don't think.

    David is talking about how lost he is without the Lord. Again, not talking about oblivation here...

    Ever heard of decomposition ;)

    Ecclesiastes is not exactly the book that talk about salvation. It's talking about how everything is vanity, and that's what this is talking about too - everything here on earth is temporaral. It came of dust, it goes back to dust. It means nothing. Money means nothing, eternally it has no value. Nor do clothes. :)

    Let's not take things out of context, shall we? You can make the Bible prove anything you want if you take things out of context.
     
  5. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

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    Christian
    The word "resurrection" is from the Greek "anastasis", hence does not appear in the Old Testament. The Hebrew writers believed in resurrection, however, and wrote vividly of it.

    Job, before the days of Moses, asked, "If a man die, shall he live again?" (14:14). He answered his own question, "All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands" (14:14,15), and, "I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God" (19:25,26).

    Abraham "offered up Isaac .... accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead" ( Hebrews 11:17-19).

    Joseph charged Israel to carry his bones out of Egypt into the Promised Land when the Exodus should take place (Genesis 50:24,25). Surely he visioned the morning of resurrection.

    David wrote, "My flesh also shall rest in hope, for thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol, i.e. grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One (Christ) to see corruption" (Psalm 16:9,10), and "as for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness" (Psalm 17:15).

    Isaiah prophesied, "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust" (26:19).

    Jeremiah promised resurrection of the babies slain by decree of Herod when Jesus was sought, saying, "Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears .... they shall come again from the land of the enemy .... Thy children shall come again to their border" (31:16,17).
     
  6. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

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    Hello All,
    _____I have seen a few quotes from Job concerning resurrection. I'm wondering why this one, my favorite, has not been posted. It is crystal clear. The Ga'al Kinsman Redeemer is alive, and in the last days will stand upon the earth and although Job's body has decayed, eaten by worms, Job knows that he will see the Redeemer with his own eyes.

    Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
    26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
    27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.


    _____Incidentally Job is the oldest book in the Bible
     
  7. chagal was here

    chagal was here jack's raging bile

    51
    +0
    The Old Testament concept of life after death was much akin to the Greek idea. In Hebrew thought this was in -Sheol (in Greek, Hades). Sheol is sometimes translated as the "pit" or the "grave" or sometimes (mistakenly) as "hell"

    Sheol, like Hades, was the place of the dead - all the dead. The good, the bad, and the ugly all went to sheol. It was a place of shadows. Nothing ever happened there. It was just a place of vauge existence.

    Later Jewish thought divided sheol into two "compartments" if you will - Abraham's bosom for the righteous, and Gehenna (named after the burning garbage dump outside Jerusalem) for the wicked. Abraham's bosom was a place of rest, while Gehenna was a place of torture.

    In Daniel we get about the clearest reference to a general resurrection where the righteous dead are restored to be rewarded and the wicked dead are restored to be punished.

    In earliest Jewish thought there was no reward/punishment (heaven or hell) after death. A good life was it's own reward, and an evil life was it's own consequence.
     
  8. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

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    Chagal,
    _____Suggest you read my post at the link below re:the ancient Hebrew view of death and resurrection. This article references most, if not all, the applicable scriptures and also cites historical sources.

    International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Resurrection
    rez-u-rek'-shun (in the New Testament anastasis, with verbs anistemi, "stand up," and egeiro, "raise." There is no technical term in the Old Testament, but in Isa_26:19 are found the verbs chayah, "live," kum "rise," kic "awake").


    http://www.christianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11371&pagenumber=3
     
  9. chagal was here

    chagal was here jack's raging bile

    51
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    i don't deny that the resurrection (or the idea of a resurrection) can be found in the old testament. I just said that the earliest jewish though had everyone going to sheol.

    theological concepts weren't delivered fully and completely in one overwhelming blow. they developed and grew over time as people learned from God and as God revealed to them.

    again i do not deny that the idea of resurrection can be hinted at in the early parts (chronilogically) of the OT - ie. Job. But the clearest reference to a general resurrection of the dead is found in Daniel.
     
  10. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    Yea Paule, I know , I have the game too. Good game hey!!
    I been playing a couple of diffrent game lately called shogun total war and Empire Earth , have ya heard of them??


    Oh , also , about the subject at hand :D I think all these scriptures are in context to there belief structures but at the same time they also fit into the contexts you give as well.

    I supose I see there beliefsof what happens when they die bye the way they speak about other things.

    It`s a bit like talking to a christian today. After a few minutes you can see what they believe even though you may not be directly talking about there beliefs. It would all depend on what context you choose to look in acording to what you are looking for.

    So , I see that you are right in your contexts but I also see that I am right when taking all of these scriptures and many more the same and putting them into the context of there beliefs on what they believed would happen when they died.

    I think these scriptures and others tell the same story as the apostles.

    that is that we die and perish but through jesus christ we have life through the resurection of the dead (by the flesh)in a new heaven and earth. All will be raised at the last day to face the judgment.

    I cant see how someone in the torments of hades needs to be raised from the dead and be judged so he can be put back exactly were he was????

    that is a confused way that alot of chrisatians seem to explain what happens when we die.

    Personaly , I prefer the truth taught by the old testament hebrews , jesus and the apostles. after that , things get scetchy with greek mythology.

    Thats what I recon any way paule :D ;) :p

    Take it easy

    Celtic.
     
  11. IgnatiusOfAntioch

    IgnatiusOfAntioch Contributor

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    The Saducees believed that when you died, that was it. That's why they challenged Jesus about it.
    The Pharasees believed in the after life, that's why in Maccabees they have the prayers for the dead and current people of the Hebrew Faith, have the mourners Kiddish.
     
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