??Like the bother said.. it was a lie. They had no problem with a animal/serpent talking.
v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this? After they ate it, they knew they were naked. being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.
so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?
??
A few people I know do believe a donkey spoke, as written in Scripture.
Since snake and angel of light are so similar in the ancient texts,(Scripture),
we believe the one who usually speaks is the one who spoke , not the one who never speaks.
No believer I know ever questioned this. Some I don't know try to explain it another way.... because of their mentors/teachers/religions 'traditions'? < shrugs > I don't know why.The donkey spoke because the Lord made that to happen.
It may be what the ones teaching them taught them and they didn't think to question it?I believe it is merely a person's lack of faith in what God's Word says if they were to write this story of Balaam off as a fable.
Peter says, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16). Jesus even quoted the OT with authority and treated them as real events and stories.
It should stand as a warning to us when trying to judge or know the absolute difference between absolute good and absolute evil for absolutely sure, etc...
That kind of knowledge or knowing belongs to God alone, etc...
Satan convinced them that they could be the judges of good and evil for themselves, and they were wrong, and we are still wrong, etc, especially absolutely, and for absolutely sure, etc...
But Satan is a lair. And full of wisdom. Got 1/3 of heaven to go with him .
And be very careful about our judging, I agree, Amen...This says it all. They decided to determine good and evil for themselves. It is the same sin Satan and his cohorts (the third fallen) were guilty of. This is still going on, today. We all need to look to God for our morality. View attachment 266862
This is the scripture text. It doesn't give us many details. But the problem is that we have added a LOT of details by our traditional understanding of what it means. Here's what I mean...v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
I've highlighted a significant problem in your post here... that's NOT what the bible says!what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this?
It's easy to read the account and assume that they "knew they were naked" as if that "knowing" came as a result of eating the fruit somehow. But that understanding ignores the question that God asked in Genesis 3:11... "Who told you that you were naked?"After they ate it, they knew they were naked.
As I said, the text itself leads us to the conclusion that they had listened to Satan about being "naked" (a term and concept he had to invent on the spot).being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.
Again, the "knowing" was not about distinguishing or recognizing "evil," but rather first-hand experiencing of evil (in addition to good).so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?
That was a most interesting post. Thank you.
In what way? Where am I in error?I think his (MyChainsAreGone) whole post is an exercise in overthinking the subject.
In what way? Where am I in error?
To be sure, your summary is defensible enough, I suppose, but there are LOTS of reasonable and even important questions that your summary totally ignores.You made a simple concept very complicated. They decided it was shameful to be without clothes. They interjected the lewd thoughts to make them feel dirty. They decided that was wrong for themselves. Took it upon themselves to decide right and wrong. They, in their minds, took that away from God. Nothing more need be said.
I've highlighted a significant problem in your post here... that's NOT what the bible says!
Everyone seems to assume that "knowing good and evil" = "know the difference between good and evil."
But that's not what it means!
As it turns out, the word "knowing" is the same word used later in the bible for "Adam knew his wife and she conceived."
In other words, to "know" is to know by personal experience. It's to have intimate personal knowledge of something.
Up to that point, Adam and Eve had never experienced evil. They had only known "good." The huge change in store for them was in to experience evil in addition to good ("knowing good AND evil").
The assumption that they knew the difference between good and evil falls apart immediately within the narrative itself... for they chose nothing BUT "evil" after eating the fruit!
None of these things were "good." They were misguided at best and utterly stupid at worst.
- They covered their bodies.
- They hid from God.
- They blamed someone else when confronted about their own sin.
It's easy to read the account and assume that they "knew they were naked" as if that "knowing" came as a result of eating the fruit somehow. But that understanding ignores the question that God asked in Genesis 3:11... "Who told you that you were naked?"
God never asks a question He doesn't already know the answer to. Therefore, we must conclude that if God asked a "who" question, it must have a "who" answer. Someone told them that they were "naked." And the ONLY "who" it could possibly be is Satan.
Therefore, the only real conclusion we can derive from the Bible text itself is that the reason they were even thinking about being "naked" was that it was an idea that Satan himself planted in their minds.
Something else to think about... before that "telling," nakedness as a concept didn't even exist... for there was nothing that did not live exactly as God created it... plant, animal, or human. There was no reason for the word "naked" to exist because there was no such thing as clothing.
As I said, the text itself leads us to the conclusion that they had listened to Satan about being "naked" (a term and concept he had to invent on the spot).
Again, the "knowing" was not about distinguishing or recognizing "evil," but rather first-hand experiencing of evil (in addition to good).
And sadly, once they experienced evil, it seemed to be the only thing they chose thereafter.
There was nothing wrong with their created state... and nothing became wrong with their created state when they sinned. That notion came from Satan... not the fruit, and not God!
Why would Satan care? Because Adam and Eve were made in God's image. Satan--who wanted to be "like God"--used his words to influence Adam and Eve to be ashamed of their own image-bearing bodies.
The naked human body is NOT a problem to God. It's literally His self-portrait, crafted by His own hands. God does not hate nudity... Satan does. And since the very first day of his influence on humans, he's been distorting what the unclad human form means.
Satan's doctrine about the body has so thoroughly pervaded modern Christian thinking that our eyes are unable to even read and understand the story of the fall correctly... we--like Adam and Eve--have listened to Satan's lies that the naked human form is a problem.
Isaiah 5:20 - "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil"
Yet we look right here in the account of the fall and--like Satan and Adam and Eve--we call good (the naked human form as created by God and described as "very good" - see Genesis 1:31) "evil."
First point......nakedness is a metaphor for shame and sin. this is why it needs to clarify in 2:25 that they were naked yet felt no shame because the two mean the same thing.
...what changes before the fall to after the fall? not their nakedness so why would they care even if they were told they were naked? they hid because of their sin not because of their skin (I know that's a really corny line). God clothes them with animal skin which means he had to kill an animal (sacrifice) to cover their nakedness and cloth their sin/shame in righteousness...
... nakedness is not only skin deep. it is sin. God "fixes" this through animal sacrifice but it's not about being naked or wearing clothes it's about restoring us to a state of righteousness.
To be sure, your summary is defensible enough, I suppose, but there are LOTS of reasonable and even important questions that your summary totally ignores.
For example:
For the record, also, your summary--short as it was--still added several things to the account that are not found in the text.
- Were their thoughts about their naked bodies correct?
- Who is the "Who" of "Who told you...?"
Finally, how can you possibly consider this event "simple"? The fall of man was the singular event which made salvation--and the personal sacrifice of the Son of God--necessary. The repercussions of that event impact each human who has ever lived.
- The notion that they "decided it was shameful" is not actually accurate... for Adam only professed fear... "I was afraid..." he said.
- The term "lewd" has meaning to us today that cannot be found in the scriptural account.
- The idea that "knowing good and evil" is about choosing good or evil.
Simple? Not at all. Critical to our theology? Absolutely. Important to understand correctly? Unquestionably.
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