What denomination and why?

[Skripper]

Pssssst! . . . Elizabeth! That's 1 Timothy 3:15 not 2:15

 

[CatholicChristian]

Oops, typing too fast again :o Thanks Skripper.

 

[Monika]

What is confusing to me is how totally subjective this seems. People talk about choosing a church because they like the worship style or find it comfortable or whatever. But I just don't get how this is somehow indicative of Truth. It seems rather focused on the self, instead of God. I mean, we shouldn't be going to church just to "get something out of it." While getting something out of it is desirable, our primary reason should be to worship our Lord.

I think "getting something out of it" isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you're choosing a church solely based on what the church can do for you, capitalizing on their programs, (free daycare, etc.) then that's kind of skewed and a bit wrong... but if you're choosing a church based on what you get out of it spiritually... well, isn't that part of choosing a specific church? If you attend a church you feel good about (as far as worship style, etc.) then you don't have distractions and can really focus on worshipping God.

When I say comfortable, I don't mean lazy or not open to a new experience God might want you to have. When I say "get something out of it" I don't mean sitting back waiting to see what the church is going to do for you. I only mean those things in more of an "at peace," free to worship kind of sense.

I hope no one interprets this as a debate, I don't mean it to be so. I'm just curious as to what you believe about the diversity of doctrine in Protestantism and its relation to this (and other) verses.

When I visited different Protestant churches, I didn't really find big differences doctrine-wise. I guess I was only looking for big differences, though. I just wanted to find a church where I felt free to worship God, where the service enhanced that, not distracted me from it.

I hope I explained that in a somewhat understandable manner... for me, this is a tricky thing to explain!

 

[SoldierofChrist]

What is confusing to me is how totally subjective this seems. People talk about choosing a church because they like the worship style or find it comfortable or whatever. But I just don't get how this is somehow indicative of Truth. It seems rather focused on the self, instead of God. I mean, we shouldn't be going to church just to "get something out of it." While getting something out of it is desirable, our primary reason should be to worship our Lord.

I agree with you, CatholicChristian. It seems a lot of Protestants today are overly relying on what "feels good" to them rather than recognizing, that in the words of Steve Camp, "it's not about us, it's all about Him."

Personally, I prefer classic hymns over any modern worship song today. More often than not, a lot of it is so "fluffy" and shallow at times that some of it is innacurate biblically. Some "worship" (worship is not a style of music, but a way of life) music is decent and accurate, but a whole lot of it isn't.

However, I think in Protestant churches there can be a mixture to a degree. I certainly don't agree with some churches that have two different worship service, a "traditional" service and a "contemporary" service. That's just giving in to what the people want and totally missing out on the whole point of what the significance of being there is in the first place.

I love all my Protestant brothers and sisters (at least the ones who accurately represent themselves as such) and there is a time to agree to disagree. Just as I'm sure there is plenty of that in the Catholic Church in regards to a lot of issues.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Monika,

Getting something out of is definately not a bad thing!

I tend to agree with Elizabeth though that some people are more concerned with subjective feelings of "I'm comfortable here" or "I like the worship style" rather than with "Is the doctrine being taught here objectively true" or "Is this the type of worship used in the early Church?"

In Christ,
Carly

 

[Andrew]

Well, perhaps when they say "I'm comfortable here" they also mean, "As far as I know, the doctrines taught here are correct, so I'm comfortable here."

I do not believe there is any "one true church". If anyone comes up to you and tells you "I belong to the one true church" and insists you come to his church despite you telling him that you are already saved and happily attending another church, then that should set off alarm bells in your spirit.

I believe different churches are called to different things and hence have different emphases. Find one that you can fit in and are comfortable in, where you can grow as a Christian.

 

[Andrew]

Personally, I prefer classic hymns over any modern worship song today. More often than not, a lot of it is so "fluffy" and shallow at times that some of it is innacurate biblically.

Isn't that subjective and "what feels good" too? What may be fluffy to you may not be fluffy to millions of young Christians. And to the younger gen, hymns may just be plain boring. Again, subjectivity and "what feels good".

 

[Blindfaith]

Believe it or not, Andrew, I agree with you 100%.

The church that we attend (my family and I) continues to feed us that which we need, outside of Christ. There is a mix of classical hymns, and also contemporary music, so all are attracted to it to worship the Lord. That is the main emphasis on the Christian music - to worship the Lord.

As far as the teachings - it is so biblically sound, and our pastor continually tells us to compare his teaching to that of the Bible, the Word of God.

But whatever the style of worship music, in any given church, it doesn't matter what it is. It all depends upon the person who is singing that particular melody, or listening to that particular message. If you're teachable, you will learn.

 

[Andrew]

Amen, depends on whether the annointing is there too, whether the worship leader is singing Amazing Grace with organ music or Shout to the Lord, with drums and e.guitars.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

Isn't that subjective and "what feels good" too? What may be fluffy to you may not be fluffy to millions of young Christians. And to the younger gen, hymns may just be plain boring. Again, subjectivity and "what feels good".

When some "praise and worship" music is incorrect theologically and emphasizes the "I feel good" mentality then yes, it is shallow. As I said, some praise chorus's are good, but a lot are not. The church needs to get away from the feel-good attitude and focus on what they can do for God rather than what God can do for them. Too many young Christians today don't even understand their own faith, what they believe and why. I think a lot of these praise chorus's certainly don't help. It could do with the fact that we are saturated in an entertainment society.

 

[eldermike]

The early church was filled with differences. Reading Acts we discover that Paul taught and sent Elders to the churches along with some instructions (the epistles). In each case He taught the basic Christian doctrine, Christ crucified, love for one another and the promise of eternal life, the resurrection. Paul addressed different problems within each of these early churches. Some were very legalistic some were not growing, another was about to split over baptism. We don't have to agree on this interpretation, that's not my point here. The point is; Unity was not based upon a set tradition and for good reason. What tradition would have worked across the whole of the early church? None, is the answer. This was not the issue then and it's totally overblown today. It's the basics of our faith that bring us together and the edges of our traditions that keep us apart.

What we have to remember is that we are kept separate by men, not God. It's the fallen nature in all men that's at work here. Men will not put the church together, documents will never do it. Our flesh closes our ears, scales our eyes and on our best day we are dirty rags in the presence of a Holy God.

The local church is important to Gods Kingdom plans, we should spend less time judging the church down the street and more time building up the one God leads us to. In fact, we should go down the street and ask if we can help with anything, share our resources just like the early church, different but not wanting for anything.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Hi Elder Mike,

I want to respond to your post, but I've got to run so I'll do it this afternoon. I think my response might border on debate so I'll put it in the Interdenominational Dialogue section, okay?

See you later.

In Christ,
Carly

 

[eldermike]

Carly,
I am not looking for a debate. But I will take a look at your responce. Just send me a link to it in a pm to remind me.
Eldermike

 

[Phoebe]

Has it occurred to anyone that the Holy Spirit may have different ways to reach people? Not everyone learn in the same way, so God comes to us where we are at at any particular time in our walk. It could be that if someone feels 'uncomfortable' in a particular setting, their heart may not be receptive to truth.
My pastor said once that he had prepared different sermons for the same day. He was going to say the same thing, but everyone will hear something different.

 

[Andrew]

When some "praise and worship" music is incorrect theologically and emphasizes the "I feel good" mentality then yes, it is shallow.

What is wrong with feeling good in church? I mean if young people can't feel good in church they will go to the pubs and bars and parties to feel good.

As I said, some praise chorus's are good, but a lot are not. The church needs to get away from the feel-good attitude and focus on what they can do for God rather than what God can do for them.

There are hymns that should not be sung too. The focus should be what God has done for them and what he will do for them. We go to church to get fed and blessed and loved. Then, and only then, when we are filled and overflowing with his love, grace and strength, we are able to serve God effectively without burning out!

 

[Reformationist]

What is confusing to me is how totally subjective this seems. People talk about choosing a church because they like the worship style or find it comfortable or whatever. But I just don't get how this is somehow indicative of Truth. It seems rather focused on the self, instead of God. I mean, we shouldn't be going to church just to "get something out of it." While getting something out of it is desirable, our primary reason should be to worship our Lord.

Hmmm... I'm not really sure how you read the statement, "Because of this I have been able to almost completely rule out certain denominations because many denominations, as a whole, teach certain things that I find to be completely unbiblical" as not relating to the importance of the Truth. As much as worshipping the Lord should be our primary goal we also need to ensure that what we learn about God, which directly influences how we worship Him, should be biblically accurate. All churches, that I know of, have a "praise and worship" portion of their services. Some are traditional, some are contemporary. I think this is really a secondary issue. It's one more of preference, in my opinion. I know very few old hymns so I would rather worship the Lord in a contemporary way. As I said though, the message of the Gospel needs to take precendence. If the message is unbiblical then I am honestly not interested in participating in that church's "praise and worship" portion of their services because the "meat" of their message is inaccurate so their worship of the Lord is inaccurate.

God bless

 

[Yitzchak]

What an interesting topic of discussion this is. I have attended dozens of different churches over the years and even a few different synagoges as well. I was raised secular with one part of my family jewish and one part nominal lutheran. I never set foot in a church or synagoge until the age of 16 when a man I worked for invited me to his church.
Because of no preconceptions and not knowing a single doctrine, tradiiton or bible verse I started from scratch so to speak.
I was converted to christ at a revival service at the church where my boss had invited me. I responded to fire and brimstone preaching about hell in a very very conservative mennonite church because that just happened to be the tradition he was part of. I learned later that they were anabaptist, arminian, protestant, etc.
While in college a few years later I was once again invited to attend christian meetings by friends. This time assembly of God denomination.
For myself each time I visited or changed churches was precipitated by circumstances in the sense that I moved to a new area or met some new friends who invited me.
I have been to several types of baptist, lutheran, presbyterian, assembly of God, methodist, non-denominational, pentecostal, church of christ, mennonite, messianic , etc.
Currently I am researching the wesleyean, nazarene branch since My fiance's family comes from that backround and it is one branch of churches which I have not had occasion to visit.
I have discovered in my travels and research that there are issues that churches divide over such as doctrine and church government (politics), sometimes just personal conflicts. I would assume based on my own experience and having spoken with others who have had similar experiences that many times a decision on which church is reached on the basis of circumstances.
One thing I have noticed in reading church history espeacially about revivals is that divine providence is very much a part of many churches history and not so much that anyone set out to start a new denomination. This is true almost exclusively that each denomination started out as an attempt to reform the church or sometimes merely people interacting with the Lord in ways the traditional leadership did not approve of and were almost forced out.
In my current research, reading the doctrine of santification and how that relates to the christian life and salvation seems to have resulted in one major branch of christianity at leats among protestants.
For myself, I will go with the old saying "bloom where I am planted" even if the Lord sees fit to uproot me several times in my lifetime.

 

[Reformationist]

What an interesting topic of discussion this is. I have attended dozens of different churches over the years and even a few different synagoges as well. I was raised secular with one part of my family jewish and one part nominal lutheran. I never set foot in a church or synagoge until the age of 16 when a man I worked for invited me to his church.
Because of no preconceptions and not knowing a single doctrine, tradiiton or bible verse I started from scratch so to speak.
I was converted to christ at a revival service at the church where my boss had invited me. I responded to fire and brimstone preaching about hell in a very very conservative mennonite church because that just happened to be the tradition he was part of. I learned later that they were anabaptist, arminian, protestant, etc.
While in college a few years later I was once again invited to attend christian meetings by friends. This time assembly of God denomination.
For myself each time I visited or changed churches was precipitated by circumstances in the sense that I moved to a new area or met some new friends who invited me.
I have been to several types of baptist, lutheran, presbyterian, assembly of God, methodist, non-denominational, pentecostal, church of christ, mennonite, messianic , etc.
Currently I am researching the wesleyean, nazarene branch since My fiance's family comes from that backround and it is one branch of churches which I have not had occasion to visit.
I have discovered in my travels and research that there are issues that churches divide over such as doctrine and church government (politics), sometimes just personal conflicts. I would assume based on my own experience and having spoken with others who have had similar experiences that many times a decision on which church is reached on the basis of circumstances.
One thing I have noticed in reading church history espeacially about revivals is that divine providence is very much a part of many churches history and not so much that anyone set out to start a new denomination. This is true almost exclusively that each denomination started out as an attempt to reform the church or sometimes merely people interacting with the Lord in ways the traditional leadership did not approve of and were almost forced out.
In my current research, reading the doctrine of santification and how that relates to the christian life and salvation seems to have resulted in one major branch of christianity at leats among protestants.
For myself, I will go with the old saying "bloom where I am planted" even if the Lord sees fit to uproot me several times in my lifetime.

Nice post Yitzchak. Thanks for sharing a godly attitude with us.

Is "Yitzchak" another form, maybe Hebrew, of Isaac?

God bless,
Don

 

[eldermike]

"bloom where I am planted" even if the Lord sees fit to uproot me several times in my lifetime.

Amen!

 

[SoldierofChrist]

Please don't misunderstand me. I have no problem with contemporary music so far as it is biblically accurate. A lot of contemporary music motivates me to live my life for Christ. I listen to it pretty often.

Personally I do prefer hymns because for me, they allow me to focus solely on the God of the Bible, His grace, love, and mercy. I'm not saying that people who like to worship to contemporary music are wrong, because God doesn't care about the form of music. He does, however, care if His Word is being accurately represented the best way it can.

I don't like churches that split their congregation to have two different services just because of a preference. There must be unity in church between believers otherwise the message of the gospel is going to suffer. I go to a church that sings both traditional hymns and praise songs in the main service (which there is only one) and has no problems. I'm sure there are a few folks to dispute this, but they haven't left yet. It's a well-grounded church that teaches the Bible accurately and people see this. They are unified each Sunday, old and young a like. It's been the first church I found to be able to do this and I think a great model for other churches as well.