WHAT DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY AND IS IT LOST IN CALANDERS?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And the same God called the law of the Sabbath and its surrounding laws the ministry of death, temporary and fading away. 2Cor 3:6-11

So God changed His mind? The day He said was Holy now isn't? Did Yeshua not get the memo? Maybe you just do not understand it.

 

[Bob S]

So God changed His mind? The day He said was Holy now isn't? Did Yeshua not get the memo? Maybe you just do not understand it.

Do you not believe God can change His mind? May I remind you that it was Holy for only one nation. It wasn't even known to most all of the World. May I also remind you that 2Cor 3:6-11 tells us that the ten commandments have been done away? KJV

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Do you not believe God can change His mind? May I remind you that it was Holy for only one nation. It wasn't even known to most all of the World. May I also remind you that 2Cor 3:6-11 tells us that the ten commandments have been done away? KJV

Why would He? May I remind you there was no Jews or Israel at Creation when He deemed it Holy. And no verse does not say that...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why would He? May I remind you there was no Jews or Israel at Creation when He deemed it Holy. And no verse does not say that...

Yep good post. I do not know why people do not seem to understand that there was no JEWS, no ISRAEL and no MOSES when JESUS made the Sabbath for all mankind *MARK 2:27.

 

[HARK!]

2Cor 3:6-11 tells us that the ten commandments have been done away? KJV

Paul contradicting Yahshua? I don't think so.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

If so why does Paul say this?

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

How do you sustain what you do away with?

Never mind. Clearly Paul isn't overriding Yahshua.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

 

[Bob S]

Paul contradicting Yahshua? I don't think so.

I didn't write 2Cor3:6-11 and Paul didn't contradict Jesus. Jesus fulfilled the law. Fulfill means bring to an end and He did. Read Eph 2.
(CLV) Lk 16:17

Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

true until all was fulfilled at the Cross. If what I write is not true because you think you have the real truth then I would suggest you rebuild the Temple because now you are in violation of what you believe is true. Not one serif.

 

[HARK!]

true until all was fulfilled at the Cross.

According to Yahshua himself, all wasn't fulfilled at his death. That's false doctrine.

Here are some of Yahshua's last words, before he ascended:

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

 

[HARK!]

I would suggest you rebuild the Temple because now you are in violation of what you believe is true.

When did YHWH call Israel back into the land? Israel is in exile until we are called.

What exactly do you believe I am violating?

 

[HARK!]

Read Eph 2.

Done. That was a good read!

Ephesians 2
1 And you, being dead to your offenses and sins,

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness "

Past tense

3 (among whom we also all behaved ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the comprehension, and were, in our nature, children of indignation, even as the rest),

Past tense

4 yet God, being rich in mercy, because of His vast love with which He loves us" 5 (we also being dead to the offenses and the lusts), vivifies us together in Christ (in grace are you saved!)" 6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus, 7 that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus." 8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, 9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." 10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them."

So we were created for good works and should be walking in them? Good to know. I suppose I should try to remember that.

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision'

Once? So not anymore are we of the heathen nations.

by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

The people of Israel who were physically circumcised, according to the law, and the eternal covenant with Abraham.


12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

The Ephesians were (past tense) apart from Israel, having been apart from Christ.

Being in Christ is being a citizen of Israel.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

"Once, " again past tense.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

If you are one in the body of Yahshua; you are a citizen of Israel.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law

Nullifying the LAW?!?.....

...But Yahshua said...

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens



of precepts in decrees,

Oh! Well I guess I should have read on, before jumping to conclusions.

The law of precepts, "in" decrees...

What's a decree?


Definition of decree
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : an order usually having the force of law a judicial decree by royal decree
2a : a religious ordinance enacted by council or titular head a papal decree
Definition of DECREE

G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number
δόγμα
that which seems to one, an opinion, dogma
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon


Definition of dogma
1a : something held as an established opinion
Definition of DOGMA

Thayer:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon

Definition of doctrine

1a : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma
Definition of DOCTRINE


Oh! Well that's very much different. It's the dogmatic, man made, Pharisaic, laws of the Talmud, that Yashua rebuked, that were done away with.

Hallelu YAH!

that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;" 16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it." 17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,

Believers in Yahshua are Israel!

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

20 being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, the capstone of the corner being Christ Jesus Himself, 21 in Whom the entire building, being connected together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord:" 22 in Whom you, also, are being built together for God's dwelling place, in spirit."

Hallelu YAH!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Done. That was a good read!

Ephesians 2
1 And you, being dead to your offenses and sins,

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness "

Past tense

3 (among whom we also all behaved ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the comprehension, and were, in our nature, children of indignation, even as the rest),

Past tense

4 yet God, being rich in mercy, because of His vast love with which He loves us" 5 (we also being dead to the offenses and the lusts), vivifies us together in Christ (in grace are you saved!)" 6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus, 7 that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus." 8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, 9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." 10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them."

So we were created for good works and should be walking in them? Good to know. I suppose I should try to remember that.

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision'

Once? So not anymore are we of the heathen nations.

by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

The people of Israel who were physically circumcised, according to the law, and the eternal covenant with Abraham.


12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

The Ephesians were (past tense) apart from Israel, having been apart from Christ.

Being in Christ is being a citizen of Israel.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

"Once, " again past tense.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

If you are one in the body of Yahshua; you are a citizen of Israel.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law

Nullifying the LAW?!?.....

...But Yahshua said...

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens



of precepts in decrees,

Oh! Well I guess I should have read on, before jumping to conclusions.

The law of precepts, "in" decrees...

What's a decree?


Definition of decree
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : an order usually having the force of law a judicial decree by royal decree
2a : a religious ordinance enacted by council or titular head a papal decree
Definition of DECREE

G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number
δόγμα
that which seems to one, an opinion, dogma
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon


Definition of dogma
1a : something held as an established opinion
Definition of DOGMA

Thayer:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon

Definition of doctrine

1a : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma
Definition of DOCTRINE


Oh! Well that's very much different. It's the dogmatic, man made, Pharisaic, laws of the Talmud, that Yashua rebuked, that were done away with.

Hallelu YAH!

that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;" 16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it." 17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,

Believers in Yahshua are Israel!

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

20 being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, the capstone of the corner being Christ Jesus Himself, 21 in Whom the entire building, being connected together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord:" 22 in Whom you, also, are being built together for God's dwelling place, in spirit."

Hallelu YAH!

Amen HARK! Well written (sorry I cannot rate it)

 

[Bob S]

LGW,You who live in Australia should take note of the IDL being just East of your country. You are among the first to start observing the Sabbath as the Earth rotates according to that line. At Mt Sinai where the Sabbath law was given to Israel it is about, what, 9 hours after you begin it? Since the Sabbath requirement began at Sinai then shouldn't that spot be where the Sabbath second begins and as the Earth rotates eastward Australia would start the Sabbath some 15 hours after the second it started at Sinai??? That is not the way it is now is it LGW? New Zealand and Australia are towards the beginning of the Holy hours of the now defunct Sabbath which makes when you begin your so called Sabbath hours out of sink with the original plan that God established for any roving Israelites who wanted to establish their homes in a different location. So to answer the OP, yes, it is lost and to which you have no rebuttal.

 

[BobRyan]

LGW,You who live in Australia should take note of the IDL being just East of your country. You are among the first to start observing the Sabbath as the Earth rotates according to that line. At Mt Sinai where the Sabbath law was given to Israel it is about, what, 9 hours after you begin it? Since the Sabbath requirement began at Sinai then shouldn't that spot be where the Sabbath second begins .

As almost all Christian denominations agree - the Bible shows us that the Sabbath requirement for mankind began in Eden. (Hint: Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11, Mark 2:27)

And the Sabbath is observed "from evening to evening" Lev 23 clarifies that point.

NOT: "Figure out where Eden was on planet Earth then have TV monitor show you when it is evening over there". (I assume we all agree to this basic idea)

Creativity is a lovely thing when it comes to art work - but for God's Law inserting a bit of one's own creativity does not work so well.

 

[Bob S]

As almost all Christian denominations agree - the Bible shows us that the Sabbath requirement for mankind began in Eden. (Hint: Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11, Mark 2:27)

And the Sabbath is observed "from evening to evening" Lev 23 clarifies that point.

NOT: "Figure out where Eden was on planet Earth then have TV monitor show you when it is evening over there". (I assume we all agree to this basic idea)

Creativity is a lovely thing when it comes to art work - but for God's Law inserting a bit of one's own creativity does not work so well.

Really Bob??? What a nothing post.

 

[HARK!]

NOT: "Figure out where Eden was on planet Earth then have TV monitor show you when it is evening over there". (I assume we all agree to this basic idea)

I believe that the garden of Eden is near the end of the earth, which I believe is close to where LGW lives.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LGW,You who live in Australia should take note of the IDL being just East of your country. You are among the first to start observing the Sabbath as the Earth rotates according to that line. At Mt Sinai where the Sabbath law was given to Israel it is about, what, 9 hours after you begin it? Since the Sabbath requirement began at Sinai then shouldn't that spot be where the Sabbath second begins and as the Earth rotates eastward Australia would start the Sabbath some 15 hours after the second it started at Sinai??? That is not the way it is now is it LGW?

No Bob this is not true at all, this was already discussed and addressed elsewhere. According to the scriptures, God's people knew about and kept God's seventh day Sabbath well before Mt Sinai which was given to man on the seventh day of the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27 and before they even arrived at Mt Sinai * EXODUS 16. Your confused here Bob according to the scripture God blessed and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest at creation for all mankind not at Mt Sinai *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

New Zealand and Australia are towards the beginning of the Holy hours of the now defunct Sabbath which makes when you begin your so called Sabbath hours out of sink with the original plan that God established for any roving Israelites who wanted to establish their homes in a different location. So to answer the OP, yes, it is lost and to which you have no rebuttal.

Nonsense. According to God's Word. God's 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments in the new covenant that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break it just like any of the other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 2:10-11; HEBREWS 10:26-31. The international dateline does not effect the observance of the seventh day Sabbath which is simply every seventh day...

* Shabbat, the International Date Line and Jewish Law (Jewish Practice)
* International date line in Judaism (Wikipedea)
* The International Dateline and the Weekly Sabbath

Hope this helps Bob

 

[Bob S]

No Bob this is not true at all, this was already discussed and addressed elsewhere. According to the scriptures, God's people knew about and kept God's seventh day Sabbath well before Mt Sinai which was given to man on the seventh day of the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27 and before they even arrived at Mt Sinai * EXODUS 16. Your confused here Bob according to the scripture God blessed and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest at creation for all mankind not at Mt Sinai *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

Well before??? Why do you seem to always pick at nits. The covenant was officially given at Sinai. You seem to always find some little nit picking thing to disrupt the real subject, very legalistic if I might say.

Nonsense. According to God's Word. God's 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments in the new covenant that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break it just like any of the other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 2:10-11; HEBREWS 10:26-31. The international dateline does not effect the observance of the seventh day Sabbath which is simply every seventh day...

You could have left out all but the last sentence. The rest of your paragraph has nothing to do with the subject. The IDL certainly did and does have a great significance. Why would you start the weekly Sabbath cycle? Why isn't the weekly Sabbath cycle started where the cycle began? Why are you depending on what someone else's writing. Are you unable to figure it out yourself? By the way have you been privy to the controversy in the SDA church over the change in the IDL in the island of Samoa? Don't tell me it has/had no affect. If ''keeping" it is so very important then why have you not doing some investigation? I certainly wouldn't depend on some Jews to have the correct answer.

* Shabbat, the International Date Line and Jewish Law (Jewish Practice)

Did you actually read those garbled up accounts of the date line? If you had I don't think you would have used it as a reference.

 

[HARK!]

Why do you seem to always pick at nits.

Picking at nits is very much different than trying to pick the speck from our brother's eye; isn't it?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ No Bob this is not true at all, this was already discussed and addressed elsewhere. According to the scriptures, God's people knew about and kept God's seventh day Sabbath well before Mt Sinai which was given to man on the seventh day of the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27 and before they even arrived at Mt Sinai * EXODUS 16. Your confused here Bob according to the scripture God blessed and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest at creation for all mankind not at Mt Sinai *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

Your response here...

Well before??? Why do you seem to always pick at nits. The covenant was officially given at Sinai. You seem to always find some little nit picking thing to disrupt the real subject, very legalistic if I might say.

Bob, God's Word is not picking at nits. You have only been provided Gods' Word and God's Word is not mine but God's and it is God's Word not mine that shows that God's people have always had Gods' Sabbath since ceation as shown in the scriptures from the very post you are quoting from and it did not come from Mt Sinai as you claim but creation where God blessed the seventh day of the week and made it a Holy day for all mankind. The scriptures are already provided in the very post you are quoting from.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑Nonsense. According to God's Word. God's 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments in the new covenant that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break it just like any of the other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 2:10-11; HEBREWS 10:26-31. The international dateline does not effect the observance of the seventh day Sabbath which is simply every seventh day...

Your response here...

You could have left out all but the last sentence. The rest of your paragraph has nothing to do with the subject. The IDL certainly did and does have a great significance. Why would you start the weekly Sabbath cycle? Why isn't the weekly Sabbath cycle started where the cycle began? Why are you depending on what someone else's writing. Are you unable to figure it out yourself? By the way have you been privy to the controversy in the SDA church over the change in the IDL in the island of Samoa? Don't tell me it has/had no affect. If ''keeping" it is so very important then why have you not doing some investigation? I certainly wouldn't depend on some Jews to have the correct answer.

Nonsense. God's 4th commandment is a part of God's eternal law that in the new covenant gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break it just like any of the other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 2:10-11; HEBREWS 10:26-31. Your confused in regards to the IDL Bob. It does not effect the keeping of Gods' seventh day Sabbath which is simply every seventh day on a continious weekly cycle. The Somoan Sabbath keepers have ignored the IDL change and continue to keep the same seventh day Sabbath they always have. The link you state that is not relevant in the next section of your post was posted to show the changing of the day names does not effect a weekly Sabbath because it is simply on a continious unbroken seven day weekly cycle. So your claims to the IDL losing the Sabbath is not true.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑The international dateline does not effect the observance of the seventh day Sabbath which is simply every seventh day...
* Shabbat, the International Date Line and Jewish Law (Jewish Practice)
* International date line in Judaism (Wikipedea)
* The International Dateline and the Weekly Sabbath

Your response...

Did you actually read those garbled up accounts of the date line? If you had I don't think you would have used it as a reference.

Yes Bob, that is why I posted them. See previous section.

Hope this helps

 

[Bob S]

Your response here...

Bob, God's Word is not picking at nits.

No, you are.

You have only been provided Gods' Word and God's Word is not mine but God's and it is God's Word not mine that shows that God's people have always had Gods' Sabbath since ceation as shown in the scriptures from the very post you are quoting from and it did not come from Mt Sinai as you claim but creation where God blessed the seventh day of the week and made it a Holy day for all mankind. The scriptures are already provided in the very post you are quoting from.

That is not true LGW because you cannot prove that anyone observed the Sabbath until Moses led the Israelites over the Red Sea. Proof LGW, show us where you get your information.

Nonsense. God's 4th commandment is a part of God's eternal law that in the new covenant gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break it just like any of the other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 2:10-11; HEBREWS 10:26-31.

Only eternal "IF" Israel had not broken the covenant laws.

Your confused in regards to the IDL Bob. It does not effect the keeping of Gods' seventh day Sabbath which is simply every seventh day on a continious weekly cycle.

You can write whatever soothes your conscience LGW, but that isn't proof that I am not correct. New Zealand and Australia are at the beginning longitudes of the Sabbath hours. If the Sabbath hours began where God gave the law to the Israelites that would be the beginning of the Sabbath cycle. You can keep your head in the sand and ignore the real truth or you can recognize the fact that where you are you are supposed to be about nine hours east of where God intended the Sabbath to begin. The observing Israelites that moved to the east of where God gave the command would, according how far East, would start their Holy hours up to 24 hours after those living where the command was given. People on the west side of of the road of that longitude would start the cycle and the people on the east side would start their Holy day 24 hours later. There has to be a starting point and an ending point. From start to finish it takes 48 hours to complete the
cycle. So, if God and all of His creation on other planets or in Heaven are observing the 24 hour Holy day with ALL Sabbath "keepers", which longitude are they using to start and finish the 24 hour cycle? Which group of people are blessed to have the Universe keeping the same time as the group? Or are they observing it for the 48 hours it takes to complete the cycle here on Earth? If the later is the case then they are disobeying God's order to work six days. Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Now I suppose you will tell me I am nit picking and I will answer you with the same one you used on me.

The Somoan Sabbath keepers have ignored the IDL change and continue to keep the same seventh day Sabbath they always have.

That is not entirely true LGW. The SDA population, the last I heard, was divided as to what day to observe.

The link you state that is not relevant in the next section of your post was posted to show the changing of the day names does not effect a weekly Sabbath because it is simply on a continious unbroken seven day weekly cycle. So your claims to the IDL losing the Sabbath is not true.

I didn't say the Sabbath was lost. The link you provided didn't address the issue I presented. What I have presented is the fact that it is your churches in Australia and New Zealand begin the Sabbath cycle as it moves westward. When the Sabbath was given before the law at Sinai that was the beginning point of the 48 hour cycle. If you are really hell bent on keeping the original day that God instituted then you should ignore the IDL and start the Sabbath hours as the Earth revolves from where the Sabbath was instituted.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, you are.

Nonsense Bob, you were only provided God's Word and God's Word is not mine and it disagrees with you. It was only sent in love and as a help to you. You may choose to believe it or not believe it. This is up to you.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑God's people have always had Gods' Sabbath since ceation as shown in the scriptures from the very post you are quoting from *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 16. The Sabbath was not fist given at Mt Sinai as you claim but creation where God blessed the seventh day of the week and made it a Holy day for all mankind. The scriptures are already provided in the very post you are quoting from.

Your response here...

That is not true LGW because you cannot prove that anyone observed the Sabbath until Moses led the Israelites over the Red Sea. Proof LGW, show us where you get your information.

Nonsense. You were already provided the scritpures showing that the Sabbath was given to man before Mt Sinai Bob and God's people knew about the Sabbath before Mt Sinai.

Here you go again Bob...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and HE RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; KEEP SABBATH] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

JESUS says he made the Sabbath at creation for ALL MANKIND...

MARK 2:27-28 [27], And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath:[28], so that the Son of man is LORD OF THE SABBATH (creator).

The GREEK word highlighted here for MAN in MARK 2:27 is ἄνθρωπος; anthrōpos (G444) which means HUMAN BEING or mankind.

Yep Sabbath made for mankind at creation all righty...

DID GOD'S PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE SABBATH BEFORE HE GAVE THEM THE WRITTEN 10 COMMANDMENTS AT MT SINAI (EXODUS 20:1-17).

EXODUS 16:23-28
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, TO MORROW IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH TO THE LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
[24], And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
[25], And Moses said, Eat that to day; FOR TO DAY IS A SABBATH TO THE LORD: to day you shall not find it in the field.
[26], SIX DAYS YOU SHALL GATHER IT; BUT ON THE SEVENTH DAY, WHICH IS THE SABBATH, IN IT THERE SHALL BE NONE.
[27], And it came to pass, that there went out some of THE PEOPLE ON THE SEVENTH DAY FOR TO GATHER, AND THEY FOUND NONE.
[28], And the LORD said to Moses, HOW LONG REFUSE YOU TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS?

Yep seems pretty clear here that Gods’ people already knew about the Sabbath BEFORE Mt Sinai and God’s laws.

Only eternal "IF" Israel had not broken the covenant laws.

Not at all Bob. You were provided new covenant scriptures showing the purpose of Gods' law which is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. God's 4th commandment is a part of God's eternal law that in the new covenant gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break it just like any of the other of the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 2:10-11; HEBREWS 10:26-31.

You can write whatever soothes your conscience LGW. but that isn't proof that I am not correct.

I do not need to write whatever soothes my conscience Bob as I am not breaking God's 4th commandment. Are you? If so are you writing things to try aned soothe your conscience? I have only provided you with Gods' Word. It seems you have chosen not to believe them.

New Zealand and Australia are at the beginning longitudes of the Sabbath hours. If the Sabbath hours began where God gave the law to the Israelites that would be the beginning of the Sabbath cycle. You can keep your head in the sand and ignore the real truth or you can recognize the fact that where you are you are supposed to be about nine hours east of where God intended the Sabbath to begin.

Nonsense. Due to the suns rotation bringing in a new day, Australians begin to observe the weekly Sabbath 9 hours before it arrives in Jerusalem, allowing an overlap of 15 hours of shared Sabbath observance between Sydney and Jerusalem. If your claims here are true Bob you better get busy and contact all the JEWS and all ISRAEL that have been keeping the Sabbath for 6000 years that disagree with you and tell them all they have it wrong. The Sabbath was made in Eden not Jerusalem and no one knows where Eden is that I last heard and Australia and New Zealand keep the same day that ISRAEL keeps in regards to the seventh day Sabbath. Sorry Bob your just plain wrong.

The observing Israelites that moved to the east of where God gave the command would, according how far East, would start their Holy hours up to 24 hours after those living where the command was given. People on the west side of of the road of that longitude would start the cycle and the people on the east side would start their Holy day 24 hours later. There has to be a starting point and an ending point. From start to finish it takes 48 hours to complete the cycle. So, if God and all of His creation on other planets or in Heaven are observing the 24 hour Holy day with ALL Sabbath "keepers", which longitude are they using to start and finish the 24 hour cycle? Which group of people are blessed to have the Universe keeping the same time as the group? Or are they observing it for the 48 hours it takes to complete the cycle here on Earth? If the later is the case then they are disobeying God's order to work six days. Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Nonsense Bob, scripture please? As posted earlier the starting point is the continuous unbroken 7 day weekly cycle that the Jews have been keeping for 6000 years. Australians begins to observe the weekly Sabbath 9 hours before it arrives in Jerusalem, due to the suns rotation of bringing in the new day/night (same day/night) allowing an overlap of 15 hours of shared Sabbath observance between Sydney and Jerusalem. Please get your facts right before posting.

The Somoan Sabbath keepers have ignored the IDL change and continue to keep the same seventh day Sabbath they always have.

Your response here...

That is not entirely true LGW. The SDA population, the last I heard, was divided as to what day to observe.

Sure it is true Bob, I gave you the official SDA position. I am not aware of any Somoan SDA's not keeping the correct seventh day Sabbath in Somoa that they have always been keeping. Even if some were not that is not the SDA official position. So yep is true sorry Bob.

I didn't say the Sabbath was lost. The link you provided didn't address the issue I presented. What I have presented is the fact that it is your churches in Australia and New Zealand begin the Sabbath cycle as it moves westward. When the Sabbath was given before the law at Sinai that was the beginning point of the 48 hour cycle. If you are really hell bent on keeping the original day that God instituted then you should ignore the IDL and start the Sabbath hours as the Earth revolves from where the Sabbath was instituted.

I provided you with three links supporting what I was sharing with you that disagree with your claims here in an earlier post. May I ask you dear friend, are you simply trying to make excuses not to keep the Sabbath Bob? Something to pray about.

Hope this helps Bob.