What creation?

[AV1611VET]

No, it just meant they believed it to be true. Not that it was true.

I'm sure if they could all come back today and relive their lives -- knowing what we all know now -- they would write It again, and not change one jot or one tittle.

 

[CabVet]

With respect to God, or in spite of God?

Actually, they were slaughtered in the name of God, to prove to them that the Christian Bible was morally and ethically superior, with a sword (if they were lucky).

As for #9 (martyrdom), two things, there are martyrs in every culture, Che Guevara is one, a Marxist revolutionary, he died for his cause, that is the very definition of martyrdom. According to your reasoning we all should be communists because what Che wrote is the truth since he died for it. And second, don't you think other religions or cultures have their own martyrs?

By the way, the old testament (the one that recants creation) was not written by martyrs.

 

[Cabal]

I'm sure if they could all come back today and relive their lives -- knowing what we all know now -- they would write It again, and not change one jot or one tittle.

I'm sure they would, if they believed it to be true. Belief will do that.

The mere existence of belief is not validity, mind.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, they were slaughtered in the name of God, to prove to them that the Christian Bible was morally and ethically superior, with a sword (if they were lucky).

I'm asking what you think, since you're the one using the Crusades as a point.

Do you think they did it in respect to God, or in spite of God?

As for #9 (martyrdom), two things, there are martyrs in every culture, Che Guevara is one, a Marxist revolutionary, he died for his cause, that is the very definition of martyrdom. According to your reasoning we all should be communists because what Che wrote is the truth since he died for it. And second, don't you think other religions or cultures have their own martyrs?

Che Guevara and others aside, please note that I gave 10 reasons combined.

That means I don't have to think Che Guevara and others died for the Truth.

By the way, the old testament (the one that recants creation) was not written by martyrs.

But the one that doesn't, was.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sure they would, if they believed it to be true. Belief will do that.

They also believed It to be Truth.

The mere existence of belief is not validity, mind.

Ya -- ever heard of Che Guevara?

 

[Orogeny]

I'm sure if they could all come back today and relive their lives -- knowing what we all know now -- they would write It again, and not change one jot or one tittle.

Oh please. There would definitely be some 'lulz' in there, and at least one mention of Ceiling Cat. This is basic doctrine AV.

 

[Jazer]

You're the 'Christian', you tell us.

What is the Bible?
by Matt Slick



The Bible is a collection of 66 books written by about 40 authors, in three different languages, on three different continents, over approximately 1600 years. The Bible claims to be inspired and inerrant. This means that the Bible claims to be from God and that it is without error in everything it addresses.

The Bible contains many different styles of writing such as poetry, narration, fiction1, history, law, and prophecy and must be interpreted in context of those styles. It is the source of the Christian religion in that the Bible contains the words of God and how the Christian is to apply the words of God to his life.

Basically, the Bible describes the origin of man in the Garden of Eden along with his fall into sin and out of fellowship with God. It then describes how God called out a special people to Himself, the Israelites. He promised the Israelites a future Messiah who would restore mankind's relationship with God. The Bible is the account of the work of God in history bringing to fruition His prophetic declarations concerning Jesus. Jesus was born of the Virgin, died on the cross, and paid for sins, just as the Bible prophesied in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New. In short, the Bible points to Jesus, "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me," (John 5:39).

Furthermore, the Bible teaches us that forgiveness of sins is found in Jesus alone, "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved,” (Acts 4:12).

Some say that the Bible is nothing more than fairy tales. But this cannot be for it contains great wisdom and truth and it has been verified throughout history as being accurate. Its historical accounts are flawlessly accurate. In fact, archaeology routinely demonstrates the accuracy of the biblical records concerning locations and events recorded in the Bible.

The Old Testament Books written by the prophets such as Moses, David, Isaiah, etc.

Pentateuch - 5 books:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Historical Books - 12 books:
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, First Samuel, Second Samuel, First Kings, Second Kings, First Chronicles, Second Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther.
Poetical - 5 books:
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon
Prophetical - 17 books:
Major Prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel;
Minor Prophets - Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
The New Testament Books written by those who knew Jesus or were under the guidance of those who did

Historical Books - 5 books:
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts
Pauline Epistles - 13 books:
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians. 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon
Non-Pauline Epistles - 9 books:
Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, Revelation
Note: Some authors attribute Hebrews to Paul.
In Ezekiel 23:1-4 it says, "The word of the Lord came to me again saying, 2 “Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother; 3 and they played the harlot in Egypt. They played the harlot in their youth; there their breasts were pressed, and there their virgin bosom was handled. 4 “And their names were Oholah the elder and Oholibah her sister. And they became Mine, and they bore sons and daughters. And as for their names, Samaria is Oholah, and Jerusalem is Oholibah."

 

[AV1611VET]

Pentateuch - 5 books:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Historical Books - 12 books:
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, First Samuel, Second Samuel, First Kings, Second Kings, First Chronicles, Second Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther.
Poetical - 5 books:
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon
Prophetical - 17 books:
Major Prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel;
Minor Prophets - Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

Have you see this before, bro?

The Old Testament consists of 39 books, arranged as follows:

• 17 [historical] --- 5 [poetical] --- 17 [prophetical]

Further subdivided as follows:

• 5 [books of Moses] --- 12 [books of history]
• 5 [books of poetry]
• 5 [books by major prophets] --- 12 [books by minor prophets]

Note: in the five books by the major prophets, you have Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel.

Let's look at this "fulcrum":

Book of Lamentations consists of 5 chapters, as follows:

• Chapter 1 = 22 verses
• Chapter 2 = 22 verses
• Chapter 3 = 66 verses
• Chapter 4 = 22 verses
• Chapter 5 = 22 verses

The two major prophets before Lamentations are pre-Caanan writings.

The two major prophets after Lamentations are post-Caanan.

And speaking of Canaan, we can further break the 12 historical and 12 prophetical books down into 9 + 3 by considering pre and post-Canaan writings.

Perfect mathematical divine balance in just the Old Testament alone.

 

[CabVet]

I'm asking what you think, since you're the one using the Crusades as a point.

Do you think they did it in respect to God, or in spite of God?

I am naive and like to believe that most of them did it because they believed they were going to hell if they didn't. But frankly, I don't give a **** as for why they did it; killing thousands of people just because they refuse to convert is neither moral nor ethical. What I do know is that they were inspired by the Bible.

Che Guevara and others aside, please note that I gave 10 reasons combined.

That means I don't have to think Che Guevara and others died for the Truth.

But the one that doesn't, was.

As for your 10 reasons:

1. The Bible claims Itself to be true. All religious books claim to be true.
2. Jesus claims the Bible is true. Not a reason (all prophets claim their books are true).
3. The Bible is superior both morally and ethically. Not a reason, and not true.
4. The Bible has the ability to affect us. Not a reason, all religious books affect their followers.
5. The Bible has extraordinary unity. Not a reason, all religious books have extraordinary unity.
6. The Bible is historically accurate. Not a reason, all religious books have historically accurate passages.
7. 100% prophecy fulfillment rate. Not a reason, you could claim Nostradamus has a 100% fulfillment rate if you interpret it right.
8. The Bible has been extraordinarily preserved. Not a reason.
9. Its human authors were martyred and/or suffered great persecution. Not a reason, many martyrs died for other causes.
10. The Bible changes lives. Not a reason, all religious books change lives.

 

[AV1611VET]

As for your 10 reasons:

1. The Bible claims Itself to be true. All religious books claim to be true.
2. Jesus claims the Bible is true. Not a reason (all prophets claim their books are true).
3. The Bible is superior both morally and ethically. Not a reason, and not true.
4. The Bible has the ability to affect us. Not a reason, all religious books affect their followers.
5. The Bible has extraordinary unity. Not a reason, all religious books have extraordinary unity.
6. The Bible is historically accurate. Not a reason, all religious books have historically accurate passages.
7. 100% prophecy fulfillment rate. Not a reason, you could claim Nostradamus has a 100% fulfillment rate if you interpret it right.
8. The Bible has been extraordinarily preserved. Not a reason.
9. Its human authors were martyred and/or suffered great persecution. Not a reason, many martyrs died for other causes.
10. The Bible changes lives. Not a reason, all religious books change lives.

Well, I guess I've been told, haven't I?

 

[theFijian]

Oh, so as a Christian I am not allowed to have doubts? That actually does answer some of my questions.

defo consol, with new and improved punctuation and grammar!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

We can't all be consol, you're becoming paranoid.

Sure you can - that's the magic of sock puppets!

 

[CabVet]

Something else I find very peculiar, if these people that say that the Bible is the absolute Truth really meant what they said they should be out there stoning gays and killing infidels. Who decides which portions of the Old book to follow and which not?

 

[AV1611VET]

Something else I find very peculiar, if these people that say that the Bible is the absolute Truth really meant what they said they should be out there stoning gays and killing infidels.

Dispensationalists know better; but I'd venture to say that is a little over your head.

For the record, Islamists took your advice about being consistent with their scriptures on 11 September 2001.

As did Shoko Asahara in 1996(?) with his scriptures.

Neither are dispensationalists, as far as I know.

Who decides which portions of the Old book to follow and which not?

Anyone -- that's why we have laws to protect people who think like you.

 

[CabVet]

Dispensationalists know better; but I'd venture to say that is a little over your head.

I will copy and paste your sentence above when you attack evolution again

For the record, Islamists took your advice about being consistent with their scriptures on 11 September 2001.

As did Shoko Asahara in 1996(?) with his scriptures.

Thanks for making my point. They not only did that in 9/11 but still do it to this day (Sharia Law).

Anyone -- that's why we have laws to protect people who think like you.

Are you really saying that you would kill all infidels if there were no laws?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you really saying that you would kill all infidels if there were no laws?

If there were no laws, Sherlock, there would be no laws telling us to kill all infidels, would there?

 

[CabVet]

If there were no laws, Sherlock, there would be no laws telling us to kill all infidels, would there?

Oh, of course, so your argument is that Religion is the only thing that stops us from killing and eating each other. But wait, you just told me 9/11 happened because the hijackers followed the law.

 

[Split Rock]

For several reasons, combined:

[*]The Bible claims Itself to be true.

Circular argument.

[*]Jesus claims the Bible is true.

Only in the bible and only according to what others have claimed he said. See above.

[*]The Bible is superior both morally and ethically.

Certainly not the O.T. Have you actually read the bible?

[*]The Bible has the ability to affect us.

I was affected by reading the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.

[*]The Bible has extraordinary unity.

No it doesn't. It is a series of books written by different authors at different times for different purposes. If it had "extraordinary unity," then there would not be Christian Apologetics.

[*]The Bible is historically accurate.

Only sometimes.

[*]100% prophecy fulfillment rate.

Except when the prophecies failed. Enter "Dispensations."

[*]The Bible has been extraordinarily preserved.

So has the Koran and the Hindu Vedas.

[*]Its human authors were martyred and/or suffered great persecution.

Irrelevant. The same could be said for the Book of Mormon.

[*]The Bible changes lives.
[/LIST]

This is just a repeat of #4.

 

[selfinflikted]

No it doesn't. It is a series of books written by different authors at different times for different purposes. If it had "extraordinary unity," then there would not be Christian Apologetics.

Besides, if it appears to have unity anyway, it's because the books that make up the Bible were handpicked and decided by vote, IIRC. (how many didn't make the cut?)

 

[Split Rock]

Besides, if it appears to have unity anyway, it's because the books that make up the Bible were handpicked and decided by vote, IIRC. (how many didn't make the cut?)

Quite a number did not make the cut, including many gospels. Of course, any book that wasn't chosen was not chosen because it is heretical or fake. We know they were heretical or fake, because they were not chosen.