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Indeed. The apostles taught to be watchful and ready.No. There is distinction between believing that the return of Christ is imminent and claiming with certainty that it will occur in one's lifetime.
Yep. Most so-called Christians in America really worship PC secular values. You seem to include yourself. Bad for you.
Let's see, where oh where do I begin...?I was curious what all controversial beliefs are held here on CF so I decided to make a poll about it. Please do not debate the issues themselves, but if you want to reply with what you voted, please feel free.
Don't think Justin nor Irenaeus (Church Doctor) made crazy wild predictions of impending doom as some whack jobs have done throughout history. There have always been predictors but Justin and Irenaeus were not in that class. So they did not discredit themselves as many quote their works as solid theology throughout history.Not true.
But I didn't think this thread was for debating the veracity of anybody's comments?
Millennialism was contested by amillennialists from the first century until the 4th century. The millennialist expectations of Justin, Irenaeus, and others failed to materialize, and they discredited themselves and were an embarrassment to the church of those centuries for their failed endtimes views. They had countless failed prophecies about being in the final generation (much like today's millennialists), and the amillennialists finally exposed their error and shut them down. Thank God for the amillennialists on that one. The Chuch owes them a great debt! Unfortunately, millennialism is back discrediting itself and the Church in our times, and has been doing so since about 1820.
But Again, this thread isn't for debating about these things.
Didn't Irenaeus teach that Christ lived to be 50?Don't think Justin nor Irenaeus (Church Doctor) made crazy wild predictions of impending doom as some whack jobs have done throughout history. There have always been predictors but Justin and Irenaeus were not in that class. So they did not discredit themselves as many quote their works as solid theology throughout history.
Somehow you have linked Millerism with millennialism. Not the case. The church believing in the imminent return of Christ is very early. Someone can be literal on a millennial Kingdom without predicting the day and hour. So I find that linkage a bit of a straw man.
What is considered an early document for Christianity is the Didache. Many scholars see it as a turn of the 1st Century post Apostolic document.
Many are fond of quoting the Didache to point to early post Apostolic church practices. Yet chapter 16 goes unnoticed.
I checked "other." I believe that the large majority of people today calling themselves Christians, disciples of Christ, are no such thing.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
Selah.
Ok... what do you suppose was the effect upon the faith of the first century Christians at Sardis when Jesus faild to "come as a thief" upon those there who did not watch as He promised He would? (Revelation 3:3)
How would those there who DID watch, view the character of God after He failed to follow through with that promise?
That He makes empty threats? That He lies? That He can't be trusted?
And again, of what benefit to the believer is being watchful?
Clearly the Christians of the 1200's who watched and died have no different an eternal fate than the Christians of the 1200's who did not watch, and died... right?
Not sure about Open Theism, but Full Preterism is the Belief that all Bible eschatology found it's fulfillment in the events leading up to and including Jerusalem's 70 AD destruction, and that we today are living "beyond the end times".
I was curious what all controversial beliefs are held here on CF so I decided to make a poll about it. Please do not debate the issues themselves, but if you want to reply with what you voted, please feel free.
That seems pretty obvious, no?How do you believe presenting extra biblical writings from the apostolic era proves what people of post apostolic eras Believed?
That seems pretty obvious, no?
Sounds very similar to my point.Christian faith should involve "looking for the blessed hope" of the return of Christ (Titus 2:13). Early Christians understood that Christ would ultimately fulfill His promise to return.
II Peter 3 prophesied that "scoffers" would come in the "last days," ridiculing the delay of Christ return. "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (II Peter 3:8-9)."
For what it's worth.I was curious what all controversial beliefs are held here on CF so I decided to make a poll about it. Please do not debate the issues themselves, but if you want to reply with what you voted, please feel free.
Full preterism is the view that all prophecies of the bible have already happened. Partial preterism (which is where I lean) is the view that all prophecies of the bible, except for Jesus' physical return and the restoration of all things, have already happened.There are some that I don't really know what they are (full preterism and open theism?), but ticked the pre-marital sex, same-sex relationships, ordination of women, and other - heck, there are probably loads of controversial beliefs I hold, but specifically I'm not convinced that the Word ofvGod and the Bible are the same thing. Which to me isn't particularly controversial, but I know some people would disagree with me.
I have enough things to answer for myself, I can't take time to focus on the sins of others.I wasn't sure I could hit the agree or like button for your entire post, but I agree with this part. I don't understand many persons' obsession with this topic over all others. As an old straight guy, I've got plenty of old straight guy sins to worry about.
One would have to believe the one is mutually exclusive to the other. Which is a possibility, however, as pointed out Didache 16 is confirmed by Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2.Not really. It may support what folks of the Apostolic era believed, but we have scripture for that don't we?
How does it demonstrate what folks from the post apostolic era believed any more than scripture itself?
I marked: 1) Annihilationism, 2) Ordination of Women, and 3) Theistic Evolution..............all of which should be old news for any of those who have read my posts over the past few years.
Peace,
2PhiloVoid
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