What causes poverty in the US

[razzelflabben]

Okay, here is the official sequal question to the bankruptcy poll I asked recently.

In the USA is poverty caused by

1. laziness
2. oppression
3. both
4. others

The key part of this question is IN THE USA!

The bible says that poverty is caused by laziness or oppression, but I have heard soooooooooo many people say that in the US, you are only impoverished if you want to be. So in order to be better equipped to help the poor in this society, I would like to know where the church stands on the issue.

Thanks for your help.

 

[TexasSky]

Okay, here is the official sequal question to the bankruptcy poll I asked recently.

In the USA is poverty caused by

1. laziness
2. oppression
3. both
4. others

The key part of this question is IN THE USA!

The bible says that poverty is caused by laziness or oppression, but I have heard soooooooooo many people say that in the US, you are only impoverished if you want to be. So in order to be better equipped to help the poor in this society, I would like to know where the church stands on the issue.

Thanks for your help.

I'm sorry, but I think you are mistaken. I don't think the bible ever says that poverty is caused by laziness and oppression.

Many, many, many great people in the bible were poor, including Jesus Christ.

In the United States there are any number of reasons.

Some families believe birth control is against God's word. These individuals often have many children, and feeding, housing and clothing large families is very expensive.

Some people work very, very hard at two or three jobs, but they are the type of work that pays very little. Minimum wage jobs, teaching, social work, clerical positions with most agencies - - all pay almost nothing.

Illness and medical bills can wipe out a life time of savings in two weeks.

Divorce leads to poverty, not only for the single parent, but for the parent paying spousal support.

Corporate layoffs and natural disasters can leave people without homes, with debts, and without employment.

I almost never meet a poor person who is not working twice as hard as the wealthy people I know.

 

[razzelflabben]

I'm sorry, but I think you are mistaken. I don't think the bible ever says that poverty is caused by laziness and oppression.

Many, many, many great people in the bible were poor, including Jesus Christ.

In the United States there are any number of reasons.

Some families believe birth control is against God's word. These individuals often have many children, and feeding, housing and clothing large families is very expensive.

Some people work very, very hard at two or three jobs, but they are the type of work that pays very little. Minimum wage jobs, teaching, social work, clerical positions with most agencies - - all pay almost nothing.

Illness and medical bills can wipe out a life time of savings in two weeks.

Divorce leads to poverty, not only for the single parent, but for the parent paying spousal support.

Corporate layoffs and natural disasters can leave people without homes, with debts, and without employment.

I almost never meet a poor person who is not working twice as hard as the wealthy people I know.

Many of these things, not all, I see as oppression. Oppression being defined as hurting others for self gain. For example, I see working 2 and 3 jobs for less than a living wage, as oppression because most if not all the time, the employer is living better than just an existance.

I don't know, when I studied poverty in scripture those are the only two that came out. I can see how sickness and divorce would lead to poverty but that begs two questions, 1. is temporary finacial problems "poverty" and 2. are these things to be included in our definition of oppression.

Any thoughts?

 

[JulySheMustFly]

Lack of support and guidance
Poor decision making

How are you defining "poverty?"
Are we talking below the poverty line or just lower income or some other definition?

 

[TexasSky]

Job lost everything.

Joseph was a carpentar, gainfully employed, but he ended up letting his wife give birth in a barn.

Paul was a tent maker, but he had no place to live and stayed with others while he did God's work.

John the Baptist had no earthly possessions, lived in the wilderness and wore camel skin clothes.

I always thought of Peter as poor. He was a fisherman, but he never seems to be presented as wealthy or well off.

 

[ebia]

Selfishness.

 

[intricatic]

Many of these things, not all, I see as oppression. Oppression being defined as hurting others for self gain. For example, I see working 2 and 3 jobs for less than a living wage, as oppression because most if not all the time, the employer is living better than just an existance.

I don't know, when I studied poverty in scripture those are the only two that came out. I can see how sickness and divorce would lead to poverty but that begs two questions, 1. is temporary finacial problems "poverty" and 2. are these things to be included in our definition of oppression.

Any thoughts?

Interesting. Considering that I've lived well below the poverty line most of my life and really don't mind it one bit, I think the biggest question is this:

Why does financial status mean so much in today's society? The only people I have ever considered truely poor aren't able to work because they already either A) don't have money to get the information they need [identification ducumentation, for exapmple], B) don't have a permanent residence, or C) Have made terrible choices in their "carreers" and cannot land a job anymore as a result. Or any combination of the above criteria, although is generally the case.

Regardless of all of that, I don't intend to make more money than I need to raise a family - part of why I'm in college. But by no means do I ever want to make more than 40,000$ a year. So I guess for me, the reason is my own personal choice.

But I believe that the Bible states fairly clearly that being poor is actually a blessing. And I agree, after seeing what money does to people.

 

[Stinker]

Okay, here is the official sequal question to the bankruptcy poll I asked recently.

In the USA is poverty caused by

1. laziness
2. oppression
3. both
4. others

The key part of this question is IN THE USA!

The bible says that poverty is caused by laziness or oppression, but I have heard soooooooooo many people say that in the US, you are only impoverished if you want to be. So in order to be better equipped to help the poor in this society, I would like to know where the church stands on the issue.

Thanks for your help.

It is very evident that since Business and Government in the U.S. has moved further and further away from it's Christian mooring, that poverty has been the result for it's citizens.

There used to be the saying that characterized something strong and reliable in the U.S., the saying was, "sound as a dollar."

Greed started at the top of business and soon infected the Federal Government. People had great freedom because you could purchase so many goods with few dollars. I think that the Credit Industry came on the scene at the same time that Government officials were working to devalue the Dollar. Gradually, people found that they could no longer purchase the larger more expensive items with a weaker Dollar, so they ran to the Credit Institutions to get these items on time payments.

We have come under even more slavery to these high vermin since then. We are now what I would call financially micro-slaved.

If we are to salvage what is left of this country and make it #1 again, we have to rid it of these greedy vermin and put good people in the top positions of Business and Government.

 

[Ave Maria]

I voted both but also wanted to vote others. I clicked the vote button too fast. I feel that poverty is caused by both laziness and oppression. However it is also caused by other factors as well such as addictions to illegal drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. People spend all their money on the illegal drugs, alcohol, or nicotine and then don't have money for groceries and such. It can also be caused by poor budgeting practices and being born into poverty. I also feel that lack of education is a primary contributor to poverty.

 

[crazymichael]

oppression is systematic. it is hard to get out of poverty when there are a lack of opportunities; poor schooling, no jobs available, etc...ceo's of companies make something like 200-300 times what the worker makes and that doesnt help. there are many causes. we could talk a lot about marx and the class system.

 

[ducktapehero]

My opinion is gov't greed is what keeps poverty so widespread.

 

[ducktapehero]

Crazymicheal, you claim to be a Libertarian but you want to discuss Marx? The Libertarian party is 100% against that thinking. The Libertarians believe in a capitalist free market society, with NO gov't interference, not state run communism. We believe that the gov't is what's screwing it up.

You should learn more about the political party you claim to support. Marxism, socialism and communism is about the polar opposite of what the Libertarians believe.

 

[razzelflabben]

Lack of support and guidance
Poor decision making

How are you defining "poverty?"
Are we talking below the poverty line or just lower income or some other definition?

I would personally define poverty as not making enough to properly sustain life. That could be low income/below the poverty line/no income, or a host of things in between.

What would your definition be?

 

[razzelflabben]

Interesting. Considering that I've lived well below the poverty line most of my life and really don't mind it one bit, I think the biggest question is this:

Why does financial status mean so much in today's society? The only people I have ever considered truely poor aren't able to work because they already either A) don't have money to get the information they need [identification ducumentation, for exapmple], B) don't have a permanent residence, or C) Have made terrible choices in their "carreers" and cannot land a job anymore as a result. Or any combination of the above criteria, although is generally the case.

Regardless of all of that, I don't intend to make more money than I need to raise a family - part of why I'm in college. But by no means do I ever want to make more than 40,000$ a year. So I guess for me, the reason is my own personal choice.

But I believe that the Bible states fairly clearly that being poor is actually a blessing. And I agree, after seeing what money does to people.

It seems we share a lot of common thoughts, however, I also know what it is like to work a full time job and not have enough for housing. Or being forced to choose to eat or get to work the next day. When your working full time and your student loans are coming to collect, and your kids are hungry and there is no food in the house to eat and no money to buy food and not enough gas to get to work and payday is a week away, poverty takes on a different tune.

It seems to me that in the US we often confuse being poor with living in poverty. From the standpoint of being poor, I totally agree with you, there is nothing to fear, and it can be the most incredible blessing. Poverty however is a bit different. When I studied poverty in the scripture one thing always intreged me, there was always an urgency attached to it. That and a place right in God's very own heart for those suffering through it. By contrast, all tooo many times in the US, I have found the church passing blame on the poor and impoverished alike, totally contridictory to what God's view of the poor are. So I wonder where this additude is coming from which is the root of the source of the question.

 

[razzelflabben]

Hope everyone have a wonderful Easter thanks for your comments I look forward to hearing more.

 

[intricatic]

It seems we share a lot of common thoughts, however, I also know what it is like to work a full time job and not have enough for housing. Or being forced to choose to eat or get to work the next day. When your working full time and your student loans are coming to collect, and your kids are hungry and there is no food in the house to eat and no money to buy food and not enough gas to get to work and payday is a week away, poverty takes on a different tune.

It seems to me that in the US we often confuse being poor with living in poverty. From the standpoint of being poor, I totally agree with you, there is nothing to fear, and it can be the most incredible blessing. Poverty however is a bit different. When I studied poverty in the scripture one thing always intreged me, there was always an urgency attached to it. That and a place right in God's very own heart for those suffering through it. By contrast, all tooo many times in the US, I have found the church passing blame on the poor and impoverished alike, totally contridictory to what God's view of the poor are. So I wonder where this additude is coming from which is the root of the source of the question.

To quote C.S. Lewis:

Charity---giving to the poor---is an essential part of Christian morality: in the frightening parable of the sheep and the goats it seems to be the point on which everything turns. Some people nowadays say that charity ought to be unnecessary and that instead of giving to the poor we ought to be producing a society in which there were no poor to give to. They may be quite right in saying that we ought to produce this kind of society. But if anyone thinks that, as a consequence, you can stop giving in the meantime, then he has parted company with all Christian morality. I do not believe one can settle how much we ought to give. I am afraid the only safe rule is to give more than we can spare.

He also said, although I can't recall if it's in the same book or not, and I cannot seem to find the original quote, that although poverty is a blessed state, Christianity's main goal is to eliminate it entirely, and commented on how ironic that thought is.

I think the root of where this ideology is coming from, though, is politics. And politics are far too often the tool used to "remedy" it - replacing any actual good we can be doing in society by delegating it to those in power and essentially ignoring it ourselves.

 

[GenemZ]

Okay, here is the official sequal question to the bankruptcy poll I asked recently.

In the USA is poverty caused by

1. laziness
2. oppression
3. both
4. others

The key part of this question is IN THE USA!

The bible says that poverty is caused by laziness or oppression, but I have heard soooooooooo many people say that in the US, you are only impoverished if you want to be. So in order to be better equipped to help the poor in this society, I would like to know where the church stands on the issue.

Thanks for your help.

First? Show us one nation that does not have its poor?

All forms of governments have poor people. It is not caused by government itself. Unless everyone is poor with very few wealthy. Then you have oppression.

But? For the US?

Deuteronomy 15:11 niv
"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

Matthew 26:11 niv
"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

Just like when we take tests in school. We are always going to have the honor student amongst us, and we are always going to have the ones who get low grades. No matter how hard some study.

I believe that is one reason why God allowed for slavery in the Bible. For, without an education, those who would have ended up getting failing low grades were at a loss on how to survive in the world. Slavery gave them shelter. And, if the Bible was followed by their masters, the slaves were treated well.

But, the world has changed. Slavery is no longer a viable option for those who lack what it takes to succeed in the world. Today, the cause of poverty is the rejection of learning sound doctrine. Those who have great wealth can have poverty of soul. And, those who have little, can have prosperity of soul. Jesus came to give life more abundantly. God looks at the wealth of the soul, not our material possessions.

A millionaire who is empty with what he owns, is in poverty. Yet, a family that is considered poor, but has God's truth and love in the soul, has wealth. Just the same, the millionaire who has God's truth and love in his soul, shares in the same wealth! But, he must first get through the eye of a camel... in many ways its harder for the materially rich to gain prosperity of soul. For they depend on their money to get them through their problems, and never reach out to God for the answer who gives true wealth. Contentment of soul.

James 2:5 (New International Version)
"Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?"

There is no excuse for the poor being whiners and complainers in this present world. Christ would make them rich in their life experience if they did not become arrogant and got involved with so much of the stupid and false teachings that are out there today. That's their real problem.

Proverbs 10:3 niv
"The LORD does not let the righteous go hungry but he thwarts the craving of the wicked."

When a poor person starves he is just as arrogant in God's eyes as a wealthy man who lives totally selfishly.

Acts 10:34-35 (New International Version)
"Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right."

The problem with the financially challenged is the same with with the weathy. Self centeredness (arrogance) and a rejection of God's truth.

Now! That does not mean they will not be religious... following after a so called faith of their own liking. For, many poor are religious.

Stupid in what they believe. Not knowing the truth of the Bible as it is presented. But, rather use the words of the Bible as a weapon to justify self, and to condemn others who have what they do not. That's the problem, in my opinion. They use the Bible in a distorted way to justify arrogant self righteousness, and never take responsibility for their own wrong choices.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Ave Maria]

oppression is systematic. it is hard to get out of poverty when there are a lack of opportunities; poor schooling, no jobs available, etc...ceo's of companies make something like 200-300 times what the worker makes and that doesnt help. there are many causes. we could talk a lot about marx and the class system.

If we're going to talk about Marx and the class system then lets start a new thread about it rather than starting a new topic in an existing thread on a different topic.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

It is often times laziness but can also be a problem when wages don't match the cost of living in the area where one lives.

 

[razzelflabben]

Some of this is tipical responses I here and a real problem, a few comments on some of this issues.

First? Show us one nation that does not have its poor?

All forms of governments have poor people. It is not caused by government itself. Unless everyone is poor with very few wealthy. Then you have oppression.

Agreed, the bible says that the poor you will always have with you. I think one reason for this is to challenge the church. The question is are we failing the challenge or suceeding?

But? For the US?

Deuteronomy 15:11 niv
"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

Matthew 26:11 niv
"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

Just like when we take tests in school. We are always going to have the honor student amongst us, and we are always going to have the ones who get low grades. No matter how hard some study.

I believe that is one reason why God allowed for slavery in the Bible. For, without an education, those who would have ended up getting failing low grades were at a loss on how to survive in the world. Slavery gave them shelter. And, if the Bible was followed by their masters, the slaves were treated well.

Over the years there have been some very well educated slaves just as there are some very well educated poor people. This type of stereotyping is a big problem, because it paints a picture that all poor people are uneducated boobs. Let me give you a real life contrast. My husband and I are well educated. We both have BS and my husband has a masters degree. We live in poverty and have gone over and above to get out but to no avail. My grandparents on the other hand didn't finish school. In fact, one finished 2nd grade the other 3rd. The are worth somwhere around a million dollars. Education isn't what caused poverty.

But, the world has changed. Slavery is no longer a viable option for those who lack what it takes to succeed in the world. Today, the cause of poverty is the rejection of learning sound doctrine. Those who have great wealth can have poverty of soul. And, those who have little, can have prosperity of soul. Jesus came to give life more abundantly. God looks at the wealth of the soul, not our material possessions.

The funny thing about poverty is that many of the truely poor are the most gracious and giving people on the earth. Doesn't sound like poor doctrine but rather correct biblical doctrine that many of them are living.

A millionaire who is empty with what he owns, is in poverty. Yet, a family that is considered poor, but has God's truth and love in the soul, has wealth. Just the same, the millionaire who has God's truth and love in his soul, shares in the same wealth! But, he must first get through the eye of a camel... in many ways its harder for the materially rich to gain prosperity of soul. For they depend on their money to get them through their problems, and never reach out to God for the answer who gives true wealth. Contentment of soul.

Very true, but the OP is about physical poverty and not spiritual, we can deal with that at a later time.

James 2:5 (New International Version)
"Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?"

There is no excuse for the poor being whiners and complainers in this present world. Christ would make them rich in their life experience if they did not become arrogant and got involved with so much of the stupid and false teachings that are out there today. That's their real problem.

There is a difference in talking about poverty and the pain thereof and whining and complaining about it. In fact, I know more rich who complain than poor. In fact, I know more rich who complain about not having enough money than I know poor who complain about going hungry.

Proverbs 10:3 niv
"The LORD does not let the righteous go hungry but he thwarts the craving of the wicked."

When a poor person starves he is just as arrogant in God's eyes as a wealthy man who lives totally selfishly.

Seems to me that the hunger talked about here is spiritual and not physical. We can study it together if you like and find the true gems in scripture. Say the work and we will delve into it publicly or privately, your choice.

Acts 10:34-35 (New International Version)
"Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right."

The problem with the financially challenged is the same with with the weathy. Self centeredness (arrogance) and a rejection of God's truth.

Now! That does not mean they will not be religious... following after a so called faith of their own liking. For, many poor are religious.

Stupid in what they believe. Not knowing the truth of the Bible as it is presented. But, rather use the words of the Bible as a weapon to justify self, and to condemn others who have what they do not. That's the problem, in my opinion. They use the Bible in a distorted way to justify arrogant self righteousness, and never take responsibility for their own wrong choices.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

As I see it, the problem goes both ways, many people use the scriptures to justify their own predjudices against the poor claiming that God wouldn't allow them to be poor if they we indeed righteous. This is contrary to scripture and God's commands. I'm looking forward to studying this with you and seeing what God is really saying to His people.