What caused the Universe?

[Subduction Zone]

Tell that to Charles Spurgeon.

This makes no sense at all since Spurgeon has been dead and buried for over 100 years. It seems that you you are simply admitting that you are wrong again.

 

[rockytopva]

Before the beginning - Before the beginning there dwelt God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and a host of angels. As three is a number of perfect union, so the angels existed in three groups...

1. Michael - Archangel over strong angels
2. Gabriel - Archangel over wise angels
3. Lucifer -Archangel over worshiping angels

Before the beginning things existed in eternity. There was no sense of time. I would imagine if you asked an angel about he timespan of things, and pertaining to the rebellion he would give you a strange look, as time was not a concept before earth. Also, as one day with the Lord is like a thousand years, things progress very fast in heaven. I would imagine that Abraham has a sense of being in heaven only a couple of days, even though he has been dead thousands of years.

If we could put a time on Lucifer's fall it would be about 15 billion years in earth's terms. Which is long for us... Short for the eternal beings.

Isaiah 14:12-13

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4

I would imagine that ego swelled in Lucifer's heart as he would lead the worship, in so much that he thought to exalt himself above God the Father himself. There was also bound to have been political games with the other angels as he is called the 'accuser of the brethren.'

Revelation 12:7-10

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


After having enough of that Michael and his strong angels cast Lucifer and his third out of heaven. As in the beginning the earth was without form and void, they were cast out into the nothingness of our universe. I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.

If... E = mc2 ... Then m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)

Therefore, for the big boom to have occurred the matter had to have been there before the light and energy (E/c2), as the scripture says...

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. - Genesis 1:2

I would imagine, with these words... 'Let there be light (Genesis 1:3)', that the earth (the mass) turned into energy and light (E/c2) and expanded out from a point of origin, turning into what solar systems the Father willed it to. So the plasma (E/c2) is actually mass that has changed state.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:4,5

I believe that 15 billion years took place between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4. God divided the light and the darkness by putting the earth in orbit around the sun thus creating the first day of the Earth's creation. But... The universe was created 15 billion years (give or take a few billion years) before that.

Behold! Mass = energy / light ... All mass was forged together with great amounts of energy and light. Forged and cooled with incredible amounts of liquid plasma (E/c2)! And soon the mass of this universe will dissociate back into the plasma from whence it was created and the great God of this Universe... Father God... Will do something else with it!

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:10-12

 

[Subduction Zone]

No..DNA crushed your argument. You can't get past the DNA points.

People that understand DNA disagree with you.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Before the beginning - Before the beginning there dwelt God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and a host of angels. As three is a number of perfect union, so the angels existed in three groups...

1. Michael - Archangel over strong angels
2. Gabriel - Archangel over wise angels
3. Lucifer -Archangel over worshiping angels

Before the beginning things existed in eternity. There was no sense of time. I would imagine if you asked an angel about he timespan of things, and pertaining to the rebellion he would give you a strange look, as time was not a concept before earth. Also, as one day with the Lord is like a thousand years, things progress very fast in heaven. I would imagine that Abraham has a sense of being in heaven only a couple of days, even though he has been dead thousands of years.

If we could put a time on Lucifer's fall it would be about 15 billion years in earth's terms. Which is long for us... Short for the eternal beings.

Isaiah 14:12-13

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4

I would imagine that ego swelled in Lucifer's heart as he would lead the worship, in so much that he thought to exalt himself above God the Father himself. There was also bound to have been political games with the other angels as he is called the 'accuser of the brethren.'

Revelation 12:7-10

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


After having enough of that Michael and his strong angels cast Lucifer and his third out of heaven. As in the beginning the earth was without form and void, they were cast out into the nothingness of our universe. I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.

If... E = mc2 ... Then m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)

Therefore, for the big boom to have occurred the matter had to have been there before the light and energy (E/c2), as the scripture says...

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. - Genesis 1:2

I would imagine, with these words... 'Let there be light (Genesis 1:3)', that the earth (the mass) turned into energy and light (E/c2) and expanded out from a point of origin, turning into what solar systems the Father willed it to. So the plasma (E/c2) is actually mass that has changed state.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:4,5

I believe that 15 billion years took place between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4. God divided the light and the darkness by putting the earth in orbit around the sun thus creating the first day of the Earth's creation. But... The universe was created 15 billion years (give or take a few billion years) before that.

Lucifer was a Babylonian King, not Satan, as shown when you read the entire passage of Isaiah 14 and not just verses 12-15. That's a common misconception/assumption that people make.

 

[Luke Paul]

It doesn't seem to matter what the topic of a thread is. No matter what we are talking about, somebody always seems to want to hijack the thread and discuss what caused the Universe.

My answer? Obviously there was a Big Bang, but before that, I don't know. Nobody knows. But the best I can tell there is some sort of driving force that "always" existed and that led to the creation of our universe, and perhaps to many other universes. (I put "always" in parenthesis, because the very concept of time is not clearly defined after we step outside the space-time constraints of the known universe.)

So have at it. This is the thread many people seem to want. If you know what caused the universe, tell us what caused it, and how you know you are right.

Just as i believe more in the word of the Lord than man's personal distorted perception in observation and interpretation
of the universe. so called "pioneers" that studied celestial body and planetary movements was published as the
standard for firstly taken as historical text that clearly is the beginning for point of reference for all that pursue
astrology and universe information. As so many lies that is presented as truth -literally studied and calculated and
mapped on fixed date intervals -calendar- and notes of observation. so far since the postings of famous astrologists.
has gone against whom created the universe. The big bang theory and evolution teachings, for which not only go against whom created the heaven, earth, light/darkness, divided days,weeks,months and year periods/seasons.
which is in genesis 1 that explains whom created the universe, -gen 1:16 says: he made the stars also.
after comparing astrology texts to my observation and unbiased results that concludes no supportive connection
that describes what is the size/measurements, distance and activity that does not correlate what as relative
coordination from fixed appointed position. instead figures are purposely noted incorrectly for controlling the perception of the masses from the truth of whom created the universe, the 1 true living God.

 

[MasonP]

Just as i believe more in the word of the Lord than man's personal distorted perception in observation and interpretation of the universe.

That 'word of the Lord' as you call it was written by men to be read by men as are all words written by men.

 

[rockytopva]

That 'word of the Lord' as you call it was written by men to be read by men as are all words written by men.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Well... If you know not the Lord then this applies....

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[MasonP]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Well... If you know not the Lord then this applies....
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Of course they are, every word was ordained and inspired by God, words like this:
Exodus 21
20 When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

 

[AV1611VET]

This makes no sense at all since Spurgeon has been dead and buried for over 100 years.

It's just a figure of speech.

 

[doubtingmerle]

No..DNA crushed your argument. You can't get past the DNA points.

Once again, a trip to see the scientific journals in a library would change your views.

Here is another link to the paper I had linked to earlier in this thread. It describes the evolution of the protein in the video in post 3. -- http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/4361097a?r3_referer=nature . In it you will read:

Richards and Cavalier-Smith (page 1113 of this issue) have performed a comprehensive analysis of the myosin superfamily of motor proteins across a wide sample of eukaryotes (organisms whose cells have nuclei, including plants and animals). The results provide insights into how myosins evolved and into the nature of the earliest common ancestor — the cenancestor— of eukaryotic cells.​

So if you really wanted insights into the nature of the evolution of the myosin motors, you could go to articles like that. The details are there, should you choose not to ignore them.

And here is a list of more articles on DNA and protein evolution:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe/publish.html
​

 

[-57]

Of those sites....which one has the best quote? Can you present it? (that should be very easy for you to do)
Your first site presented similarities....which points to a common creator.

People that understand DNA disagree with you.

WOW!!!! I'm convinced.

 

[-57]

Once again, a trip to see the scientific journals in a library would change your views.

Here is another link to the paper I had linked to earlier in this thread. It describes the evolution of the protein in the video in post 3. -- http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/4361097a?r3_referer=nature . In it you will read:

Richards and Cavalier-Smith (page 1113 of this issue) have performed a comprehensive analysis of the myosin superfamily of motor proteins across a wide sample of eukaryotes (organisms whose cells have nuclei, including plants and animals). The results provide insights into how myosins evolved and into the nature of the earliest common ancestor — the cenancestor— of eukaryotic cells.​

So if you really wanted insights into the nature of the evolution of the myosin motors, you could go to articles like that. The details are there, should you choose not to ignore them.

And here is a list of more articles on DNA and protein evolution:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe/publish.html
​

I now understand that your faith in evolutionism is based upon the headline of an article. Clap-clap.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I now understand that your faith in evolutionism is based upon the headline of an article. Clap-clap.

No sir. I have explained to you before that my confidence is in the process of science. I have given you information on multiple research studies that deal with the evolution of DNA and proteins. You could read them if you wanted to understand.

 

[-57]

No sir. I have explained to you before that my confidence is in the process of science. I have given you information on multiple research studies that deal with the evolution of DNA and proteins. You could read them if you wanted to understand.

Your links didn't do what you said they do......explain how DNA and proteins evolved.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Your links didn't do what you said they do......explain how DNA and proteins evolved.

Wow! You digested them all already! There must have been 15 books and over 100 papers from peer-reviewed journals in that second link. And three hours later you come back with the conclusion that these papers do not show what is claimed.

Are you a speed reader?

And no, they don't claim to offer the specific step by step details of how every single molecule changed. They don't claim that. But they claim to show evidence of the broad paths that evolution took.

 

[-57]

Wow! You digested them all already! There must have been 15 books and over 100 papers from peer-reviewed journals in that second link. And three hours later you come back with the conclusion that these papers do not show what is claimed.

Are you a speed reader?

Oh, so i suppose you read them all and have the ability to cut and paste the ...how...from just one of those links?

All you did was present a claim...and some links. Big deal.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Oh, so i suppose you read them all and have the ability to cut and paste the ...how...from just one of those links?

All you did was present a claim...and some links. Big deal.

Uh no, I have done more than that. I have explained to you how minor changes to DNA make minor changes to the amino acid sequence in the proteins the DNA specifies, and how these minor changes make minor changing to the folding and chemical characteristics of the protein, and how these affect the cells which then affect the organism. And I have explained how mutliple minor changes add up to major changes. Regarding the specific protein in post 3, I posted video of a professor explaining how similarities of the amino acid chains indicate the motor proteins likely evolved from the same proteins as other motor proteins. And putting that all together, one can get an idea of how the protein evolved.

And I posted a link to a peer-reviewed study that claims to give more details, with peers reviewing the study and confirming it.

 

[-57]

Uh no, I have done more than that. I have explained to you how minor changes to DNA make minor changes to the amino acid sequence in the proteins the DNA specifies, and how these minor changes make minor changing to the folding and chemical characteristics of the protein, and how these affect the cells which then affect the organism. And I have explained how mutliple minor changes add up to major changes. Regarding the specific protein in post 3, I posted video of a professor explaining how similarities of the amino acid chains indicate the motor proteins likely evolved from the same proteins as other motor proteins. And putting that all together, one can get an idea of how the protein evolved.

And I posted a link to a peer-reviewed study that claims to give more details, with peers reviewing the study and confirming it.

I understand your coloring book concept of evolutionism. You haven't shown that it actually happens.
Similarities of the amino acid chains DO NOT indicate the motor proteins likely evolved from the same proteins as other motor proteins. It only shows they are similar. It is your assumption they evolved from a similar protein. An argument can easily be made that the similarities are there because of a common creator.

 

[MasonP]

It is your assumption they evolved from a similar protein. An argument can easily be made that the similarities are there because of a common creator.

How can an argument be made for magic? has magic ever been shown to do anything? you not only need to show a common creator but you need to show it can do magic, invisibility and magic, you're not asking for much are you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's just a figure of speech.

Hardly. "As old as the hills" is a figure of speech. It is something that is generally not true itself, but it gets a picture across. You only got the first half of that right.