What caused the Universe?

[HitchSlap]

Why... so you can hem haw around, change definitions to suit your argument and tell me it has nothing to do with common sense? Na, been there already...several times.

I understand.

 

[HitchSlap]

I didn't say it was God

Good, so we can agree on something.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

I didn't say it was God

You did.
From post #364

-so-
we have reason to believe it had to be God -

we have reason to believe that God has revealed this to us

 

[HitchSlap]

insupportable in not unreasonable

There's a reason it's called "religion."

 

[victorinus]

Yes we were put here by aliens 200,000 years ago and have progressed to this point.

an agnostic doesn't know
-and-
most of us don't know
-so-
we need a category for those who don't want to know

 

[victorinus]

Good, so we can agree on something.

do you agree that something had to start the universe?

 

[HitchSlap]

do you agree that something had to start the universe?

No.

 

[HitchSlap]

we need a category for those who don't want to know

We already have a category for that.

 

[victorinus]

No.

do you agree that the universe had a start?

 

[HitchSlap]

do you agree that the universe had a start?

Yes.

 

[victorinus]

Yes.

do you believe that the universe started all by itself?

 

[HitchSlap]

do you believe that the universe started all by itself?

I don't know. Maybe it's always existed, governed by the laws of physics, and our experience is a result of these physical laws.

 

[Subduction Zone]

do you believe that the universe started all by itself?

So far the evidence shows no need for a "something".

 

[victorinus]

I don't know. Maybe it's always existed, governed by the laws of physics, and our experience is a result of these physical laws.

do you believe that it is possible to start all by itself?

 

[victorinus]

So far the evidence shows no need for a "something".

do you have evidence of something starting all by itself?

 

[HitchSlap]

do you believe that it is possible to start all by itself?

Well, we're here, aren't we?

 

[victorinus]

Well, we're here, aren't we?

that doesn't make sense

 

[HitchSlap]

that doesn't make sense

Yes, there's a possibility.

 

[-57]

Just as I thought you wouldn't know, you latch on to what you want to believe then run with it.

You're last statement made no sense at all.

 

[Chriliman]

Chriliman, you came into this in the middle, so let's back up and look at the conversation that led to this. Some have been arguing that it would be logically impossible for the laws and forces of nature--call it nature's god--to create anything, but it would be logically possible for God to do it. That is a bogus argument. It is special pleading to say the argument applies only if you capitalize the g. If it is logically possible for your God to do it, then it is logically possible for Hawking's god to do it.

I agree that it's possible for the laws and forces of nature to have created the universe, but this would only explain origins, nothing else and that's if it's true. Remember what I said about us being able to imagine anything that could have created the universe, but if it's false then it's useless, but how can we determine if it's false if there's no truth revealed by a revealer?

God could logically explain all things about origins as well as all things we experience in life, not just origins.

You like your God's reason for doing it. Therefore your God did it? I don't think that is a valid argument.

Doesn't matter if I like it or not, what matters is if it's true. It's true that I have accepted it as the truth.

Scientists have done an amazing job so far, so yes, I expect them to reveal more about origins.

And they will continue to reveal more and their revelations will continue to point to a creator God and many will continue to find ways to avoid that conclusion for personal reasons.

But no, I don't expect them to ever understand origins fully.

Some may not, but those scientists who do actually seek God's wisdom in their work will learn as much as God is willing to disclose about origins and life in general, there's a limit to how much we can process in these mortal bodies, but eventually all things will be revealed and we'll have new immortal bodies capable of greater levels of comprehension.