What caused the Universe?

[HitchSlap]

In your eyes, you don't think as science advances, the Bible retreats?

I don't think many people care, unless their faith is based on '"literalism," otherwise no one else really notices.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think many people care, unless their faith is based on '"literalism," otherwise no one else really notices.

Which supports my theory that they do it subconsciously.

Most scientists today are either demonically influenced or downright demon possessed.

Just my theory.

 

[Chriliman]

Criliman,

I see no answer to my questions about what is meant when folks say God spoke the universe into existance. Literally "speaking" means moving one's mouth so it makes sound waves in the atmosphere that convey a message. Since there was no atmosphere, how could there be "speaking". I think you mean a metaphorical speaking, that somehow the spirit conveyed a message to the universe to tell it to start existing. Is that what you are referring to? A metaphorical "speaking"?

I think you mean he speaks metaphorically through his son. So I am going to assume that is what you mean for creation: spirit somehow conveyed the message to the universe to start existing.

If you believe that spirit somehow conveyed the message to the universe to start existing, then that is not a huge difference from the person who believes that the laws of nature, the hidden creative forces of reality, the expanding quantum state, or nature's god, somehow conveyed the message to the universe to start existing. They sound like the same general idea. So if you agree God can convey the message to the universe to start existing, why cannot another person believe that god did it? Yes you have a preference that it was God, not god, but that is different from the argument some have made here that god (the unseen laws and forces of nature) could not possibly have done it, for that would be creating something from nothing. But at the same time they say God could do it. That is special pleading. If you say it is possible for God with a capital G to do it, but not god with a small g, then you are putting far too much power into a simple capital letter, a simple proper name.


Agreed. By "nothingness" I meant an expanse of space with no matter. Do you believe that out of an expanse of space without matter a spiritual force caused the matter of the universe to start existing?


Again, by "nothingness" I mean the absence of matter. There are some who believe that before the universe, there was a constant stretching out of space time that always existed. That means that space itself was stretching out, so if at one moment you could mark two points in the vacuum and measure them, and come back minutes later, you would find those exact points were now further apart. Within this space time there was a quantum ripple that caused that expansion to drive great energy into a single spot that became the seed of the Big Bang. It is actually a reasonable assumption, since we have found that at the very beginning, the universe was going through a vast inflation in which the dimensions of space were stretching out at phenomenal rates, and quantum affects were predominate.

Since it appears that you are big into the idea that something in space (but not made of matter) somehow directed matter to start existing, are you open to this?

I'm on my phone now so I won't take the time to break up your post.

If the true God is the only being in existence capable of creating matter where there was none before then there can't be another god who is capable of the same. Agreed?

It comes down to the true God, creating matter for a specific purpose which is to create beings who can understand His power and freely desire to be with Him forever because of what He has done to save them from the power of sin and death, resulting in true everlasting love -or- your god who created matter for some reason that is yet be known...or maybe you do know why your god has created matter.

Humans can imagine all sorts of gods or causes for the universe, but none of what we imagine matters if it ends up being false, but how can we know it's false if there is no truth revealed by a revealer? You're expecting human scientific minds to reveal what is true about origins, I expect God to reveal what is true about origins and everything else in life and if he wants to use me in order to do that then His will be done, not mine.

 

[HitchSlap]

Which supports my theory that they do it subconsciously.

Most scientists today are either demonically influenced or downright demon possessed.

Just my theory.

More like an opinion, as in 'I believe in angels and devils, and when people say/do things I don't agree with, it's debils.'

 

[AV1611VET]

More like an opinion, as in 'I believe in angels and devils, and when people say/do things I don't agree with, it's debils.'

Fine ... call it an opinion then.

But I'll ask you again: Do you believe that, as science advances, the Bible retreats?

 

[HitchSlap]

Fine ... call it an opinion then.

But I'll ask you again: Do you believe that, as science advances, the Bible retreats?

Why is what I believe so important to you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why is what I believe so important to you?

Because I don't believe a word you said in Post 321:

That's a naive view, and only held by those who see conspiracy behind everything. Martyr's complex, I think they call it?

 

[HitchSlap]

Because I don't believe a word you said in Post 321:

Right, because you see conspiracy behind anything that contradicts your naive literalism.

 

[quatona]

the stupid game
-is-
not wanting to learn

So why don´t you want to learn?

 

[AV1611VET]

Right, because you see conspiracy behind anything that contradicts your naive literalism.

Thank you for also QEDing my assertion that it is easier to ridicule than answer questions.

 

[HitchSlap]

Thank you for also QEDing my assertion that it is easier to ridicule than answer questions.

Do you at least admit, then, that you don't have a sincere interest in asking questions, but would rather asked closed ended questions to support your presupposed notions? I find your "questions" to be disingenuous to say the least.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you at least admit, then, that you don't have a sincere interest in asking questions, but would rather asked closed ended questions to support your presupposed notions? I find your "questions" to be disingenuous to say the least.

I ask questions to try to get people to think about what they just said.

When they don't answer, I assume they didn't think about it.

But when they refuse to answer ... like you're doing ... I think about something else.

 

[HitchSlap]

I ask questions to try to get people to think about what they just said.

When they don't answer, I assume they didn't think about it.

But when they refuse to answer ... like you're doing ... I think about something else.

Because you ask closed-ended questions, which you intend to use as "gotcha" moments, rather than true discourse. Which is why, IMO, you find most people ridicule what you say. Unfortunately, you take this to mean you're correct, when you should take it to mean you're offensive. But I suspect you know this already, and your only reasons for commenting are to protect your untenable beliefs. It's why you're afraid of honest discussion.

Meh, but I'm no psychologist, just call 'em like I see 'em.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because you ask closed-ended questions,

Didn't Jesus answer questions with questions?

 

[HitchSlap]

Didn't Jesus answer questions with questions?

We really don't know.

Also, you're not Jesse.

 

[quatona]

Didn't Jesus answer questions with questions?

What if he did?

 

[AV1611VET]

We really don't know.

That's why you're a mission field.

 

[AV1611VET]

What if he did?

Then what's the problem with me doing it?

Can't I ... ahem ... ape His style?

 

[-57]

How would you know it's God telling you to do it?How are you supposed to tell the difference between God and a "voice in your head"?I am afraid you are assuming and believing too much with very little to go on.

I don't expect you to answer either of these questions because to do so you would need to openly lie.

It's not about me knowing but rather about Abraham knowing....and Abraham got it right.

 

[MasonP]

It's not about me knowing but rather about Abraham knowing....and Abraham got it right.

Just as I thought you wouldn't know, you latch on to what you want to believe then run with it.