victorinus
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- May 15, 2016
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you would not be able to explain our sense of purpose and morality
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you would not be able to explain our sense of purpose and moralityAnd why cannot the uncaused cause [of the universe] be a non-personal ultimate reality that always existed?
-the uncaused cause
-you have to have an uncaused cause
-don't think there are any other reasonable guesses because I can't think of any
uncaused cause is clearly defined, what part of that don't you understand?What is that and how do you know?
Why?
Maybe you lack imagination.
The question is not whether God did it or it happened by itself, but what happened?How do you trace them back in time? Or better yet, let me just get past my stalling and be blunt, anything else would be a waste of time. It sounds to me you have little to no reason to believe what you do, so I'll take it you just have faith that is what happened. If not, and considering your answer, I think it's a fair question to ask if you can do a little better than that? Maybe start with the "time" question and how it was traced, or wherever you like.
I think God did it all, why? if for no other reason, it just makes a lot more sense to me that something was created, as opposed to just happened by itself, because I've seen things created but never saw something happen by itself. But lets dwell on your ideas for the moment.
As Speedwell explained, galaxies are moving away from each other. The speed is proportional to the distance from each other, so that puts them all in the same place billions of years ago.How do you trace them back in time? Or better yet, let me just get past my stalling and be blunt, anything else would be a waste of time. It sounds to me you have little to no reason to believe what you do, so I'll take it you just have faith that is what happened. If not, and considering your answer, I think it's a fair question to ask if you can do a little better than that? Maybe start with the "time" question and how it was traced, or wherever you like.
I think God did it all, why? if for no other reason, it just makes a lot more sense to me that something was created, as opposed to just happened by itself, because I've seen things created but never saw something happen by itself. But lets dwell on your ideas for the moment.
God spoke and matter & energy came out of nowhere.The question is not whether God did it or it happened by itself, but what happened?
How do you trace anything back in time?Speedwell said:How do you trace the galaxies back in time?
But if you project those galaxies back beyond 4004 BC, you'll be making a big mistake.Speedwell said:You see that they are moving in certain directions and when you project those directions back in time, you see that they all seem to have started at the same place.
Not if they were "wagon-wheeled" outward; as opposed to "pinwheeled" outward.As Speedwell explained, galaxies are moving away from each other. The speed is proportional to the distance from each other, so that puts them all in the same place billions of years ago.
That's a good answer, but creation ex materia is also possible and was very popular at one time (some Christians subscribe to it even now) but early Christian theologians discouraged it because they saw it as a "slippery slope" leading to Gnostic dualism.God spoke and matter & energy came out of nowhere.
I don't think one has to be a Rhodes scholar to be able to go down through the verses in Genesis 1 and point out what was created ex nihilo and what was created ex material.That's a good answer, but creation ex materia is also possible and was very popular at one time (some Christians subscribe to it even now) but early Christian theologians discouraged it because they saw it as a "slippery slope" leading to Gnostic dualism.
You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas.
You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas. It just happens by itself. Where do you think toots come from? That God comes down from heaven and creates toots ex nihlo?
Diamonds, oil, and coal just happen when the condition is right. It requires no God to create the diamonds down there.
I'm just telling you the history. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference. Why is creation ex nihilo important to you?I don't think one has to be a Rhodes scholar to be able to go down through the verses in Genesis 1 and point out what was created ex nihilo and what was created ex material.
If it leads to Gnostic dualism, I would venture to say the person being led isn't grounded in the Truth very well.
Because people are always asking me for evidence of creatio ex nihilo, and I tell them that ... by its very nature ... creatio ex nihilo would not generate any.I'm just telling you the history. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference. Why is creation ex nihilo important to you?
As Speedwell explained, galaxies are moving away from each other. The speed is proportional to the distance from each other, so that puts them all in the same place billions of years ago.
You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas. It just happens by itself. Where do you think toots come from? That God comes down from heaven and creates toots ex nihlo?
Diamonds, oil, and coal just happen when the condition is right. It requires no God to create the diamonds down there.
I don't know why that would be an issue. Nobody has any evidence about what happened "before."Because people are always asking me for evidence of creatio ex nihilo, and I tell them that ... by its very nature ... creatio ex nihilo would not generate any.
With who? me?I don't know why that would be an issue.
I thought you were an ID guy. What you just posted is pretty much mainstream theistic evolutionism.Has someone actually claimed that God' is personally involved mentally in shaping each and every diamond? Never heard that before.
I always understood that he set the process for things to work automatically in motion.
I mean, why would an atheist who has no evidence of what happened before the beginning of our universe be asking you to provide some?With who? me?
It's not an issue with me.
In fact, I have a whole slew of challenges that scientists are too cowardly (or too smart) to take on, without changing the wording.
An excellent question, with which I cannot get a straight answer.I mean, why would an atheist who has no evidence of what happened before the beginning of our universe be asking you to provide some?
Well, I don't believe that he set Darwinian Evolution in motion.I thought you were an ID guy. What you just posted is pretty much mainstream theistic evolutionism.
uncaused cause is clearly defined, what part of that don't you understand?
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can you suggest another reasonable explanation?
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