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Yes, indeed.
You can't get them to stay on topic when discussing the Creation Week.
They always ... without exception ... want to bring up everything BUT the creation events.
That's why I tell others, when discussing creation, never let someone bring up events that happened after that week, or the discussion is over.
I can't, no, but the universe can. It regularly creates a particle of mater and anti-matter out of nothing, which later come together and annihilate each other.You can't self create stuff from nothing.
OK, but as I said, the creator can be nothing more than mindless forces of nature that always existed. That is one of my options. How do you know that the creator that always existed was not simply the mindless forces of nature?There is the requirement for a creator. Considering the creator could not have created Himself...the creator had to have always existed if there is stuff today.
Yes.I think it's an admission that he has lost the argument in the thread he started.....there is the requirement for a God...and as a humanist you must change your opinion or change the thread.
Of course when he moved outside of creation week he also presented the bible out of context showing that he didn't really understand the text presented in the scripture.
No, they aren't created out of nothing.I can't, no, but the universe can. It regularly creates a particle of mater and anti-matter out of nothing, which later come together and annihilate each other.
Uh, no, just responding to what you said. You called your witness (the writer of Genesis) on the witness stand. So far this is the only evidence you have, your witness. So why can I not cross examine your witness?OK, so now you're moving the goal post....and presenting scripture in an out of context fashion...all the while missing the true meaning.
Uh excuse me, I was not distorting what your witness says. Your witness, the writer of Genesis, says God commanded Abraham to set out to kill his son. Do you agree that this is what your witness says? There is no distortion here.Why do you insist on distorting the bible, inserting false meaning to it? Why can't you honestly understand what it says...then disagree with it if you choose to?
Uh, yes, I did make that link, and in my opinion both are pointless. God should not have told Abraham to set out to kill his son. And God should not have said he could not have forgiven us unless we first kill his son. But we digress. If you want to stay on subject, why bring this up?The way you presented Abraham and his son clearly tells me you haven't made the link between God and His Son...and the scapegoat God provided Abraham. You tend to mock something you know nothing about.
No.Do you agree that this is what your witness says?
You mean like plutoing "sacrifice" to "kill"?doubtingmerle said:There is no distortion here.
I can't, no, but the universe can. It regularly creates a particle of mater and anti-matter out of nothing, which later come together and annihilate each other.
OK, but as I said, the creator can be nothing more than mindless forces of nature that always existed. That is one of my options. How do you know that the creator that always existed was not simply the mindless forces of nature?
Uh, no, just responding to what you said. You called your witness (the writer of Genesis) on the witness stand. So far this is the only evidence you have, your witness. So why can I not cross examine your witness?
Uh excuse me, I was not distorting what your witness says. Your witness, the writer of Genesis, says God commanded Abraham to set out to kill his son. Do you agree that this is what your witness says? There is no distortion here.
Uh, yes, I did make that link, and in my opinion both are pointless. God should not have told Abraham to set out to kill his son. And God should not have said he could not have forgiven us unless we first kill his son. But we digress. If you want to stay on subject, why bring this up?
Back on subject. The only source for your claim for the universe is this witness you call on the stand, the book of Genesis. Fine. Can I now get back to cross examining your witness?
You write this in response to, "The writer of Genesis says God commanded Abraham to set out to kill his son. Do you agree that this is what your witness says?"
You say it all came from nothing when you say your imaginary God created everything from nothing.
We don't know where it all came from and we admit it, you on the other hand claim an imaginary God did it all, where is the sense in that?
I don't see how my statement can be called spin. Genesis 22 clearly says that God told Abraham to set out to kill his son. If you don't think this is true, tell me what you think Genesis 22:1-2 is saying. If my interpretation is spin, then please state in your own words what you think Genesis 22:1-2 is saying, and why that is different from what I say it says.I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Because you want to put some sort of spin on scripture...doesn't make it false.
I make no claim to be above God.You, now claiming to be above God says..."God should not have told Abraham to set out to kill his son." This once again shows you don't know what your talking about.
Ah and your explanation is that God did it. But where did the stuff come from that God is made of? Did that stuff always exist? If the stuff that God is made of always existed, why cannot we make the same claim that the "stuff" of ultimate reality--whether that be matter or physical laws or cosmic inflation or quantum mechanics or something else--always existed? Why is it OK to say that your God always existed, but not OK to say the ultimate source of the universe(s) always existed?I said nothing of an imaginary God.
Where it the sense in "don't know"? Makes no sense at all to me this would all be such a big mystery. We have a great explanation for it all, and I'm going with it...makes perfect sense to me over your alternative.
Yes that creates a problem for me. I agree.This creates yet another problem for you....if forces of nature existed from eternity past..."now"... would never get here. Just as eternity in the future will never be reached. 1 zillion years into the future will be just as close as eternity is now. There had to have been a creator of stuff.
Find us the quotes where we all say this. (I, on the other hand, can find you quotes where I said that I don´t believe there has ever been a state of nothingness).
In fact, creatio ex nihilo is a Christian idea.
Find us the quotes where we all say this.
Ah and your explanation is that God did it. But where did the stuff come from that God is made of? Did that stuff always exist? If the stuff that God is made of always existed, why cannot we make the same claim that the "stuff" of ultimate reality--whether that be matter or physical laws or cosmic inflation or quantum mechanics or something else--always existed? Why is it OK to say that your God always existed, but not OK to say the ultimate source of the universe(s) always existed?
For the record, I don't say the universe came from nothing. Starting at the OP, and continuing throughout this thread, I have claimed that the universe probably came from an ultimate reality beyond the space time boundary of this universe, and have offered several possible alternatives of what that reality was like. If you refuse to read what I write, and make up things that I am saying, we will get nowhere.Fortunately I have an explanation from the Bible in that God always was. I don't have to depend on maybe's or IDK's.
Nobody has an explanation. Just asserting a personal entity is no explanation.One can only conclude. And when I say nothing, say there was always a spec of dust out there, it's still no explanation, it's still essentially nothing.
..but you don´t get to sell your conclusions as our statements.Nobody has an explanation.
Just asserting a personal entity is no explanation.
do you want God to exist?Millions of people obviously do
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