What came first The Freedom or The Responcibity

[paul becke]

Is freedom absolute or is there a price to pay from having freedom, and if there is a price to pay, Is It actually freedom?

When does the freedoms of one interfere with the freedoms of others. If there is a limitation is it a physical, mental, material or all three?

Freedom implies a degree of responsibility, certainly for the Christian, but for all moral human beings, including humanists, in practice ,although philosophically you would not be subject to any moral constraints at all. In reality of course, that's another matter.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Freedom implies a degree of responsibility, certainly for the Christian, but for all moral human beings, including humanists, in practice ,although philosophically you would not be subject to any moral constraints at all. In reality of course, that's another matter.

I think it is the conscience rather than freedom which implys responsibility. One must have a sense of value for those who will be effected by a persons activities to feel responsible to anything.

Morality is a catch phrase that infers a level of superiority over those who wield it with less vigor than others. It is a thing without value that is used to gauge the dignity of actions.

Reality is a subjective term. It is like determination of truth and the concept of justice.

 

[juvenissun]

Are you assuming that he actively disregarded other cultures simply because he concentrated on the culture he knows? One can only speak with authority on what one knows of.

Culture? Do you know why can a Chinese freely make racial comments and not be criticized as a racist? This would also be an example to illustrate what freedom is.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Culture? Do you know why can a Chinese freely make racial comments and not be criticized as a racist? This would also be an example to illustrate what freedom is.

I have no knowledge of this matter. I'm not an authority on Chinese culture, but I would assume if any such activities as you prescribe are being done it is not against the ruling authorities and as such it is just as much regulated as some in other cultures. Freedom is a concept, not a reality since the only example of true freedom is death.

 

[quatona]

Society is society. It doesn't matter the model because the very existence of a society impedes freedom by it's very nature. Society equals structure which defines the perimeters of acceptability. This structure acts as a pacifier to placate humanity into accepting the social structure they are born into and to define anything outside that with the fearful label of chaos.

The idea of unabridged freedom is an enticing tidbit of eroticism that we play around in our minds and fantasize about but when we truly find someone who is really free it scares the living daylights out of us. We are born into a lie that states who and what we are based on the structure of our physical bodies and one that fits extremely well into the society around us.

Society determines what it is to be us long before we find out just who we are and any discrepancies are dealt with by the worst tools imaginable. That is shame, guilt and in the end ostracizing or incarceration. If a person's individuality are too opposed to the imagery of normalcy depicted by society they will be striped of their humanity, demonized and blotted out of society.

So what´s your question again?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

So what´s your question again?

Scroll upwards to post 1.

 

[juvenissun]

I have no knowledge of this matter. I'm not an authority on Chinese culture, but I would assume if any such activities as you prescribe are being done it is not against the ruling authorities and as such it is just as much regulated as some in other cultures. Freedom is a concept, not a reality since the only example of true freedom is death.

WHY wouldn't the Chinese authority (and people too !) be sensitive about the racial problem? If you do not know the answer, you missed a good part in the understanding of freedom. Yes, the concept of freedom. The reality reflects the concept.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

WHY wouldn't the Chinese authority (and people too !) be sensitive about the racial problem? If you do not know the answer, you missed a good part in the understanding of freedom. Yes, the concept of freedom. The reality reflects the concept.

What has race to do with what I posted. I said against the ruling authority for a reason.

 

[True Scotsman]

Is freedom absolute or is there a price to pay from having freedom, and if there is a price to pay, Is It actually freedom?

When does the freedoms of one interfere with the freedoms of others. If there is a limitation is it a physical, mental, material or all three?

No, freedom is not absolute, but rights are. You can't go around doing whatever you feel like on the whim of the moment, even if you are alone on a desert island.

The price you must pay is you must think rationally.

The freedoms of one interfere with the freedoms of others when one violates the individual rights of others. This always involves some type of force.

 

[juvenissun]

What has race to do with what I posted. I said against the ruling authority for a reason.

The race issue is NOT free to be mentioned in western (more developed?) society, but it IS in oriental society. Is that an example which addresses the concept and the practice (reality) of freedom? The local/regional authority make such rules FOR A GOOD REASON. Would these reasons in contradiction be interested to know in your thread?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

The race issue is NOT free to be mentioned in western (more developed?) society, but it IS in oriental society. Is that an example which addresses the concept and the practice (reality) of freedom? The local/regional authority make such rules FOR A GOOD REASON. Would these reasons in contradiction be interested to know in your thread?

Freedom to discuss race in a place which is as unconcerned with human rights as China is a poor example of anything. Now, start talking about the leadership over there, while you are there and then we start getting somewhere.

 

[juvenissun]

Freedom to discuss race in a place which is as unconcerned with human rights as China is a poor example of anything. Now, start talking about the leadership over there, while you are there and then we start getting somewhere.

I am not sure how far away from the topic this would be. But, any way ... this is not my thread.

From Chinese point of view, our criticism to their human right violation is EXACTLY the situation in which we are trying to interfere with THEIR FREEDOM.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I am not sure how far away from the topic this would be. But, any way ... this is not my thread.

From Chinese point of view, our criticism to their human right violation is EXACTLY the situation in which we are trying to interfere with THEIR FREEDOM.

I have nothing to say about what they are supposed to think on our criticizes of them. Freedom has never been, in my mind a tool from controlling speech.

It would seem, if your allegations are correct, that they think freedom means lack of being judged for actions they are supposedly accountable for.

 

[juvenissun]

I have nothing to say about what they are supposed to think on our criticizes of them. Freedom has never been, in my mind a tool from controlling speech.

It would seem, if your allegations are correct, that they think freedom means lack of being judged for actions they are supposedly accountable for.

They think they deserve THEIR freedom. They persecuted some of their people with reasons that is justified according to them. Is that what a freedom should be? Who are we who can tell them how to handle their internal business?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

They think they deserve THEIR freedom. They persecuted some of their people with reasons that is justified according to them. Is that what a freedom should be? Who are we who can tell them how to handle their internal business?

What is freedom when the very people who condemn their fellow man to the ranks of the underclass must then stand vigil over them to keep them oppressed. What freedom is this that the upper echelons must stand in fear of any who would stand up to them without fear of loosing a life that is lived in shackles.

What freedom is this that you speak of. I see no freedom in any who entrust in power to degrade others since power is only useful to you, if you are it's greater wielder. There will always be those who come after you and they may just be the better tyrant. Suddenly, you will be the one entering the ranks of the oppressed, ultimately to become the very cushion they fall upon when yet another comes along to takes their place.

I see only the bondage of fear and those who live in fear of the only thing that is certain while any still breath. They fear the same winds of change coming around, yet another time to blow them away as they did their predecessor.

 

[juvenissun]

What is freedom when the very people who condemn their fellow man to the ranks of the underclass must then stand vigil over them to keep them oppressed. What freedom is this that the upper echelons must stand in fear of any who would stand up to them without fear of loosing a life that is lived in shackles.

What freedom is this that you speak of. I see no freedom in any who entrust in power to degrade others since power is only useful to you, if you are it's greater wielder. There will always be those who come after you and they may just be the better tyrant. Suddenly, you will be the one entering the ranks of the oppressed, ultimately to become the very cushion they fall upon when yet another comes along to takes their place.

I see only the bondage of fear and those who live in fear of the only thing that is certain while any still breath. They fear the same winds of change coming around, yet another time to blow them away as they did their predecessor.

You can say exactly the same to ANY legislated law. Do we have thousands of laws? Are we truly free? Chinese society has significantly fewer laws. Are they more free than us?
So the nature of true freedom can still be illustrated by God's first commandment to Adam: you have freedom, except ...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

You can say exactly the same to ANY legislated law. Do we have thousands of laws? Are we truly free? Chinese society has significantly fewer laws. Are they more free than us?
So the nature of true freedom can still be illustrated by God's first commandment to Adam: you have freedom, except ...

The freedom to be ignorant of everything other than you existing is not a freedom. It is enslavement by limitation of experience. It is the same as not being able to understand a car when it would be much easier to use that car to get around than it would be to walk, which is what in your Bible your God gave to Adam to experience.

 

[juvenissun]

The freedom to be ignorant of everything other than you existing is not a freedom. It is enslavement by limitation of experience. It is the same as not being able to understand a car when it would be much easier to use that car to get around than it would be to walk, which is what in your Bible your God gave to Adam to experience.

Wrong analogy. Adam knew what he can and can not do. To know the limitation IS the only way to enjoy freedom.

 

[Chriliman]

Is freedom absolute or is there a price to pay from having freedom, and if there is a price to pay, Is It actually freedom?

When does the freedoms of one interfere with the freedoms of others. If there is a limitation is it a physical, mental, material or all three?

Interesting question. I might take it a step further and ask: Is existence free, or was there a price paid so that we can freely exist? I think there was a price paid so that we can freely exist, that price was the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Interesting question. I might take it a step further and ask: Is existence free, or was there a price paid so that we can freely exist? I think there was a price paid so that we can freely exist, that price was the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Wasn't the sacrifice of Christ a redemption of sins and not a price to pay for existence. Everyone living and dead have or will exist outside acceptance of any savior.