What came first, Monotheism, or, Polytheism?

[GrayAngel]

First, "Lord God" put simply means, Ruler and Judge over the entire world.
"Let us make man in our image"
(Rashi)
Here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He.
Since man was created in the likeness of the Angels, and they would envy him. He consulted them, and when He judges Kings, He consults with His Heavenly household, for so find we regarding Ahab, that Mikah said to him,
(1 Kings 22:19) I saw the Lord seated on His throne...etc.

This is one possible explanation, but it's not universally accepted. The chapter makes no mention of angels anywhere.

 

[Robban]

This is one possible explanation, but it's not universally accepted. The chapter makes no mention of angels anywhere.

No there is plenty not mentioned, which is why many come away emptyhanded.
Hear O Yisra el the Lord our God the Lord is one.

 

[GrayAngel]

No there is plenty not mentioned, which is why many come away emptyhanded.
Hear O Yisra el the Lord our God the Lord is one.

All we have is "in the beginning, God created." Where do the angels come in? Did they create us too? Were we created in God's image, or the image of the angels? Where does it say that angels were created in the image of God?

I don't disagree with you that God is one God. However, there is evidence for the Trinity in the Old Testament.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

You're inferring your own meaning into the scriptures.

No. I treat the scriptures the same way I treat any other ancient text - particularly religious/mythological ones - and view them within their historical context. I look at how the text has been composed, redacted and assembled, how it relates to other texts that are considerably older, etc.
And of course, archaeological evidence also needs to be taken into consideration.

To do anything else would be like taking all the claims in the Book of Mormon at face value, believing in the golden plates, pre-columbian Israelite colonies in America and magical underwear because the text says so.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The Greeks thought that their own gods had a sense of humor to permit the Egyptians to view them as half-animals. IOWs, the Greeks (or some of them) figured that the Egyptian gods were merely the Greek gods wearing funny costumes.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Re: the context of the notorious Thatcher quote:

I find it quite curious that she first asserts that there is no such thing as society, only to then proceed to describe *exactly* what a society is. (Except, of course, that a whole ideology of "self-help" and a political agenda of Hobbesian proportions was hiding behind that rather poetic description. Essentially, it all boiled down to: "If a rich person wants to spend his money on a new golf club rather than saving a poor guy who lies starving in the street, that's his prerogative." In Thatcher's world, the rich are rich and the poor are poor because they DESERVE it.)

 

[Eudaimonist]

Re: the context of the notorious Thatcher quote:

I find it quite curious that she first asserts that there is no such thing as society, only to then proceed to describe *exactly* what a society is.

I take her to mean that society is not some nebulous "Other" -- some entity apart from individuals -- that will solve everyone's problems, but is instead made up of individuals that solve problems. It's just a way of redefining the issue to emphasize her perspective.

Yes, Margaret Thatcher definitely did believe in society in the way that you do. Yes, she certainly placed more emphasis on self-help than some do, but it doesn't appear that she argued against charitable aid to others. She said: "and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate" There no soulless monster here who views each man as an island.

What this shows is that some people hated Thatcher so much that they would prefer to take her out of context instead of accurately present her views.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Greg1234]

Actually, the Israelites started out as polytheists who only gradually became devoted to their exclusive tribal deity YHVH, and the earliest books of the Bible are henotheistic (in spite of intense redaction and "retconning" by later generations). Even as late as the 7th century BCE, YHVH was not a monotheistic deity, even though he was worshipped as without peer and above all other gods.

You do realize that God (monotheism) is not a replacement for principalities (gods) and intermediaries (Lords), right? Paul in Gal 1:3-4, Eph 1:3, Eph 1:17 does not replace God with Jesus but recognizes the whole through the representative. The intermediary cannot become a "monotheistic deity" over time since the one God is already recognized through the representative.

The gods, powers or principalities cannot become a "monotheistic deity" over time since it is recognised as a part of the whole. In the OT we see that the law was given by YHVH but in Gal 3:19-20, it is said to be given by angels (what we would also call gods). Paul then goes on to emphasize that God is one.

Yes, YHVH is above all over gods and Paul touches on false gods and idolatry in Col 3:5. But YHVH is not over itself in different languages and principalities do not replace the whole.

By means of etymology, we can reconstruct a Proto-Semitic pantheon that included *Ilu, who received Abraham's exclusive devotion under the name El. The Tetragrammaton was only retroactively identified with that deity.

The Tetragrammaton (YHVH) replaces the name (El) as a label for the one and its constituents.

 

[Greg1234]

The Greeks thought that their own gods had a sense of humor to permit the Egyptians to view them as half-animals. IOWs, the Greeks (or some of them) figured that the Egyptian gods were merely the Greek gods wearing funny costumes.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Animals are only symbolic representations of the One's constituents. Rediscover Ancient Egypt - Egyptian Monotheism (The ONE) and Polytheism (The ALL)

 

[GuardianShua]

Other gods were created by mankind to compete against Yahwah. And that is the reason for Polytheism.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Other gods were created by mankind to compete against Yahwah. And that is the reason for Polytheism.

Amazing! What about various Hinduisms that are older than the Old Testament?

What about gods in societies so far away from the Hebrews that they had never heard of Yahweh?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GuardianShua]

Amazing! What about various Hinduisms that are older than the Old Testament?

What about gods in societies so far away from the Hebrews that they had never heard of Yahweh?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Some societies add great lengths to their calendars because it sounds good. It's their way of saying, I was here first.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Some societies add great lengths to their calendars because it sounds good. It's their way of saying, I was here first.

I suppose they also buried artifacts in the ground to create the illusion of having been there for quite a while, huh?

Ah, nothing beats the deliberate, cultivated ignorance of the creationist!

 

[Rationalt]

Did somebody post these biblical verses already?.


Genesis 11:7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech."


Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Monotheism came later.


The Dead Sea Scrolls fragment of Deutoronomy 32.8-9 reads When Elyon apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of EL (LXX and Qumran texts); Yahweh's own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.


Yes, Judaism was polytheistic.

 

[Rationalt]

Something on Elohim the plural:From a jewish site.
Early Hebrew religion was polytheistic; the curious plural form of the name of God, Elohim rather than El, leads them to believe that the original Hebrew religion involved several gods. This plural form, however, can be explained as a "royal" plural. Several other aspects of the account of Hebrew religion in Genesis also imply a polytheistic faith.
— The earliest Hebrew religion was animistic, that is, the Hebrews seemed worship forces of nature that dwelled in natural objects.

— As a result, much of early Hebrew religion had a number of practices that fall into the category of magic: scapegoat sacrifice and various forms of imitative magic, all of which are preserved in the text of Genesis .

— Early Hebrew religion eventually became anthropomorphic, that is, god or the gods took human forms; in later Hebrew religion, Yahweh becomes a figure that transcends the human and material worlds. Individual tribes probably worshipped different gods; there is no evidence in Genesis that anything like a national God existed in the time of the patriarchs.

 

[Robban]

Did somebody post these biblical verses already?.


Genesis 11:7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech."


Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Monotheism came later.


The Dead Sea Scrolls fragment of Deutoronomy 32.8-9 reads When Elyon apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of EL (LXX and Qumran texts); Yahweh's own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.


Yes, Judaism was polytheistic.

Strange, Abraham was the first Jew, and he taught Monotheism.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Strange, Abraham was the first Jew, and he taught Monotheism.

How do you know that?

 

[Robban]

How do you know that?

Because I,ve checked it out, that,s how.
I don,t go putting in a lot of time into something just to pick holes in it.
For me there has never been any problem with The one true God, ever.
I don.t get a kick out of denying He is.

 

[Rationalt]

Strange, Abraham was the first Jew, and he taught Monotheism.

What about Genesis i quoted ?.Was it before Abraham ?.

What about people before him who wrote Genesis ?.

 

[Robban]

What about Genesis i quoted ?.Was it before Abraham ?.

What about people before him who wrote Genesis ?.

Genisis is the the first book of Moses, A brief account, actually 2,3,4 are a scanty account of instructions, 5 is a summary.