What came first, Monotheism, or, Polytheism?

[GuardianShua]

No, *points to other post* Also, Pagans are very diverse in their beliefs.

It's not that simple... and just because you are unaware of something doesn't exist. Also you don't name a baby so that it exist, you name it to be in relation with it.



Monotheism is a theological statement on the quantifiable division of Divinity... saying either there is only one or that divinity by nature is one.

For example, somebody could worship a deity named Bob and only worship them. Just because that person is only aware of or even only worships Bob does not mean that they say "well, no other deities exist" it simply means the don't have a relationship with another deity.

Someone may believe in many deities but only be working on a relationship with a few or even one exclusively. It all depends on the spiritual seeker. Being exclusive to one doesn't mean they are monotheist unless that sate their belief says there is only one entity.

It's not as simple as a numbers game- rather it depends on hat attributes you ascribe to the divine.



Well most polytheistic systems, especially those in more modern eras are henotheistc. In all fairness it probably wan't too long before polytheism started to evolve and toward the complexities henotheism or soft-polytheism. Look at which route a culture took can tell one quite a bit how they view relations.

There are a few things worth mentioning here: I) henotheism is still polytheism, II) Henotheism designates an authoritarian hierarchy more so than a hierarchy by nature/attributes in relation to the whole which is more "soft-polytheism" - the two have often been confused. III) Political reasons do happen but it can be a number of reasons other than political. For example, many local deities of ancient Egypt ascended and descended in power on regional and national levels based simply on how the attributes of the deities were seen to reflect Egyptian life. As cultural and social factors changed, so did the importance of many deities.

I agree that Henotheism is a part of Polytheism.

 

[GuardianShua]

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you. That is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered, from generation to generation.”

Exodus 6
1. Then Yahwah said to Moses, "Now you will see what I will do to Pharaoh: Because of my mighty hand he will let them go; because of my mighty hand he will drive them out of his land."
2. Elohiym said to Moses, "I’m Yahwah. 3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahwah I did not make known to them.

Exodus 20:3. "You shall have no other gods (Elohiyms) before me.

Deuteronomy 4:35. You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD (Yahwah) is God (Elohiym); besides Him there is no other.

Deuteronomy 4:39. Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD (Yahwah) is God (Elohiym) in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

Deuteronomy 5:7. "You shall have no other gods (Elohiyms) before me.

Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord (Yahwah) our God (Elohiym), the LORD (Yahwah) is one (only.)

1 Kings 8:60. So that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD (Yahwah) is God (Elohiym) and that there is no other.

Isaiah 42:8. "I am the LORD (Yahwah); that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.


Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahwah), "and my servant (Yahshua) whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god (el) was formed, nor will there be one after me.

Isaiah 44:8. Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God (Eloah=Gods above) besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

Isaiah 45:5. I am the LORD (Yahwah), and there is no other; apart from me there is no God (Elohiym).

6. so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD (Yahwah), and there is no other.

Isaiah 45:14. This is what the LORD (Yahwah) says: "The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, and those tall Sabeans— they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains. They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, 'Surely God (El) is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god (Elohiym).' "

Isaiah 45:18. For this is what the LORD (Yahwah) says: He who created the heavens, He is God (Elohiym); He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited: He says: "I am the LORD (Yahwah), and there is no other.

Isaiah 45:22. "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God (El), and there is no other.

Isaiah 46:9. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God (El), and there is no other; I am God (Elohiym), and there is none like me.

Joel 2:27. Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am the LORD (Yahwah) your God (Elohiym), and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Animism most likely preceded both, as it was virtually universal in the shamanic hunter-gatherer cultures that existed prior to the agrarian revolution and the rise of organized religion following in its wake.

Religions as we know them today are pretty much a product of the first cities, when specialization and large-scale social organization became a necessity. When populations became too large to be held together by kinship ties or even close acquaintance, deities became the glue that supplied them with a sense of shared identity.

 

[GuardianShua]

Animism most likely preceded both, as it was virtually universal in the shamanic hunter-gatherer cultures that existed prior to the agrarian revolution and the rise of organized religion following in its wake.

Religions as we know them today are pretty much a product of the first cities, when specialization and large-scale social organization became a necessity. When populations became too large to be held together by kinship ties or even close acquaintance, deities became the glue that supplied them with a sense of shared identity.

In regards to Animism: Some evolutionists believe that to be true. Our scriptures do say that God is a Spirit from a different heaven, than here. According to our scriptures God came into being upon His own accord in the other heaven. But that still leaves us with Monotheism.

 

[Greg1234]

Animism most likely preceded both, as it was virtually universal in the shamanic hunter-gatherer cultures that existed prior to the agrarian revolution and the rise of organized religion following in its wake.

Animism cannot precede God since animism, polytheism and all forms of diversification are simply the dissection of the whole into its principalities, properties and natures (what you call "deities"). The cells and organs (deities) which make up the man (God).

Religions as we know them today are pretty much a product of the first cities,

No they're not. Religions are the product of a creation of man where he retains and draws upon the essence of his nature established at the time of his conception. You're doing that Darwinism thing again.

when specialization and large-scale social organization became a necessity. When populations became too large to be held together by kinship ties or even close acquaintance, deities became the glue that supplied them with a sense of shared identity.

The identity established through their creation is what brought them together and may keep them together. Their identity is not a product of them having formed a union.

In essence, God didn't arise through the conspiracy of unions or the backwoods collusion of conniving gangs. The formation of a group is supplementary, the relationship or experience with one's maker is not dependent on said formation. In fact it precedes it and warrants the formation.

 

[GuardianShua]

Please pass the pop corn.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Animism cannot precede God

The question isn't "what preceded God?", but which "ism" preceded which other "ism". Animism could certainly precede both monotheism and polytheism.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

In regards to Animism: Some evolutionists believe that to be true.

Evolution has got nothing to do with it.
Try archaeology. Or cultural anthropology. Or religious studies. Or just about any scrap of pre-historic evidence that you can find.

Our scriptures do say that God is a Spirit from a different heaven, than here. According to our scriptures God came into being upon His own accord in the other heaven. But that still leaves us with Monotheism.

I'm pretty sure you are aware of the fact that "proving" your religion by citing your scriptures as evidence is a pretty useless, and no more valid than "proving" Scientology by citing Dianetics.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The question isn't "what preceded God?", but which "ism" preceded which other "ism". Animism could certainly precede both monotheism and polytheism.

And naturally, "being there first" is not the same as "being more correct", either.

 

[GuardianShua]

Evolution has got nothing to do with it.
Try archaeology. Or cultural anthropology. Or religious studies. Or just about any scrap of pre-historic evidence that you can find.


I'm pretty sure you are aware of the fact that "proving" your religion by citing your scriptures as evidence is a pretty useless, and no more valid than "proving" Scientology by citing Dianetics.

Opinions are just that, opinions. Everyone has one, even Archaeologist and Evolutionist. Oh, and cultural Anthropologist. There is no proof that their claim is true, nor were they alive then to know as a matter of fact. Yahwah claims to be the origin of life. I find that interesting.

 

[Greg1234]

Evolution has got nothing to do with it.

It has everything to do with it actually. Both idealism and materialism start from a point and it's the starting point which determines the nature of the present and outlines the direction of progression.

Try archaeology. Or cultural anthropology. Or religious studies. Or just about any scrap of pre-historic evidence that you can find.

And what makes you think that Darwinism is excluded? Though Darwinian doctrine may look like an extrinsic property (being the overseer and all), that's merely illusory and does not necessitate an exclusiion of its passive and aggressive influence.

I'm pretty sure you are aware of the fact that "proving" your religion by citing your scriptures as evidence is a pretty useless, and no more valid than "proving" Scientology by citing Dianetics.

Actually one can cite the American records of Pearl Harbor as evidence for Pearl Harbor and exclude the Japanese accounts. The parables laid down by Jesus, when interpreted, capture in essence the core doctrine of every religion. Hence one can bypass the Darwinian request to do the same thing multiple times for the sake of his/her amusement.

 

[Greg1234]

The question isn't "what preceded God?", but which "ism" preceded which other "ism". Animism could certainly precede both monotheism and polytheism.


eudaimonia,

Mark

It read "God" as in the whole, as in monotheism.

 

[awitch]

Opinions are just that, opinions. Everyone has one, even Archaeologist and Evolutionist. Oh, and cultural Anthropologist. There is no proof that their claim is true, nor were they alive then to know as a matter of fact. Yahwah claims to be the origin of life. I find that interesting.

Well don't let thousands of archaeologists, anthropologists, and historians who dedicated their lives to their fields of study and collecting evidence get in the way of your scripture.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Opinions are just that, opinions.

And facts are just facts.

I love the way some people use the word "opinion" to somehow try to put their most unfounded assertions of par with academic findings based on well-documented evidence.

It's right out there with "well, that's just a theory", and smacks of carefully cultivated ignorance and an inability to deal with reality.

Everyone has one, even Archaeologist and Evolutionist. Oh, and cultural Anthropologist.

We are not talking about opinions, though.

There is no proof that their claim is true, nor were they alive then to know as a matter of fact.

Actually, there's plenty of evidence, and being alive and/or present at a certain event is no requirement for figuring it out in retrospect.

Yahwah claims to be the origin of life. I find that interesting

About as interesting as Zeus claiming the same. Or rather: people attributing it to their chief deity.
If a page that reads: "I, the one true God, have written these lines and every single one of them is the truth" is all it takes to convince you - then I wonder why you're not a muslim. Or a Mormon. Or a Hare Krishna. Or a member of any of the other bazillion sects and movements who believe that their holy texts were authored or inspired by True Divinity.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

It has everything to do with it actually.

Your absurd obsession with Darwin and evolution is kind of... disturbing. Especially when you pretty much try to attribute everything to the influence of "The Origin of Species", even discoveries and observations that pre-dated its publication by more than half a century, and/or are totally unrelated.

The ToE describes how organisms adapt to their environment through natural selection. That's all.

 

[GuardianShua]

And facts are just facts.

I love the way some people use the word "opinion" to somehow try to put their most unfounded assertions of par with academic findings based on well-documented evidence.

It's right out there with "well, that's just a theory", and smacks of carefully cultivated ignorance and an inability to deal with reality.


We are not talking about opinions, though.


Actually, there's plenty of evidence, and being alive and/or present at a certain event is no requirement for figuring it out in retrospect.


About as interesting as Zeus claiming the same. Or rather: people attributing it to their chief deity.
If a page that reads: "I, the one true God, have written these lines and every single one of them is the truth" is all it takes to convince you - then I wonder why you're not a muslim. Or a Mormon. Or a Hare Krishna. Or a member of any of the other bazillion sects and movements who believe that their holy texts were authored or inspired by True Divinity.

Dear Jane.
I think I have heard enough Liberal thinking for today. Good bye.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Dear Jane.
I think I have heard enough Liberal thinking for today. Good bye.

Yeah, you darn liberals and your respect for facts!


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Dear Jane.
I think I have heard enough Liberal thinking for today. Good bye.

I think what you are meaning is..you've had enough............reality?

 

[SithDoughnut]

I think what you are meaning is..you've had enough............reality?

Everyone knows that reality has a liberal bias.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Everyone knows that reality has a liberal bias.

That's what I hear.

Science: What is it up to?

-CryptoLutheran