What came before us?

[OmegaCharge]

Sorry is this is in the wrong place. I'm trying to find my way around here.

The Bible starts with "In the Beginning". That is the beginning of our place in time as the human race. The Bible is for us, dealing with our time on Earth. But before God decided to create the human race, what existed? Was there a previous race on Earth, or somewhere else in the universe before us? This is just one of the things that has plagued my mind.

But I do know this: It doesn't affect our salvation or lives, and it is not necessary for us to know, or it would be Written. But aftre keeping it to myself for so long, I would love to hear opinions.

 

[suzmot]

The Bible starts with "In the Beginning". That is the beginning of our place in time as the human race. The Bible is for us, dealing with our time on Earth.

To quote genesis:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty...."

Sounds more like the beginning of the universe than the beginning of the human race were you to take it literally.

But... you don't believe the bible is literal truth do you?

 

[Justaman0000]

Yea. Why wouldn't it be

 

[ChristianSoldier85]

And there's this nice piece,

Job 38:6-8 (King James Version)


6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

 

[Justaman0000]

The angels stand in the presence of God almighty in the kingdom of Heaven. They are spiritual beings, just as God is Spirit. Before the Universe was the Spiritual realm. We are not told everything probably because we cannot understand them.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And there's this nice piece,

Job 38:6-8 (King James Version)


6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

God inspired language, and with it literary devices, including poetry. All describe actual events but in poetic language. A good example is the creation of man from the dust, the elements of the earth. When man dies his body "returns to the dust from where it came." The bible story uses these devices extensively. Identifying when literary device is present in the story isn't really that difficult. Literalism is both a straight jacket and a strawman, to be avoided at all times.

owg

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sorry is this is in the wrong place. I'm trying to find my way around here.

The Bible starts with "In the Beginning". That is the beginning of our place in time as the human race. The Bible is for us, dealing with our time on Earth. But before God decided to create the human race, what existed? Was there a previous race on Earth, or somewhere else in the universe before us? This is just one of the things that has plagued my mind.

But I do know this: It doesn't affect our salvation or lives, and it is not necessary for us to know, or it would be Written. But aftre keeping it to myself for so long, I would love to hear opinions.

Genesis 1:1 is a stand alone statement that is so resoundingly important that it should be in large bold letters.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."


This act of creation implies perfection. What follows is the account of the destruction and then the restoration of the surface of the earth and its atmosphere as a suitable habitat for the man God was about to create.

owg

 

[Merlin]

There is good evidence that there were beings before Adam.

 

[juvenissun]

There is good evidence that there were beings before Adam.

What "were" (?) the beings. Do you mean angels? When were they created in the Six Days? (My guess is on Day 1. All of them need to work ever since)

 

[Merlin]

What "were" (?) the beings. Do you mean angels? When were they created in the Six Days? (My guess is on Day 1. All of them need to work ever since)

No, i'm not referring to angels

 

[juvenissun]

There is good evidence that there were beings before Adam.

You are whetting my appetite. What is it?

 

[Merlin]

personally,
i believe there were humanoid-like creatures here.

Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

===================

Gen 4:14 and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

who could that be? There's only 3 people on earth, right?

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife;

who could that be? There's only 3 people on earth, right?

and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

a whole city? for a family of 3?

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

finally a 4th person.
But no women yet.

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

ah!
Now women

YMMV

 

[parsa]

This is interesting.

Firstly, is Adam the first human God created? When I read Genesis that's what I think but I'm not sure my understanding is necessarily correct.



Assuming Adam is the first human God created then the verses you mention makes me think about two things.

1) Could God have created other humans the same way He created Adam, meaning the rest are not sons and daughters of Adam and Eve but are still human?

2.) If not,then does that mean there are those of us that are not human, or entirely human?

 

[shernren]

1) Could God have created other humans the same way He created Adam, meaning the rest are not sons and daughters of Adam and Eve but are still human?

Fantastic question.

The question of "what makes us human?" is really difficult. In particular, disabled people of all kinds should still be considered human, and so being human is not simply a matter of, say, having four limbs, or having a good brain. It's a spiritual matter. Possibly, we are humans made in the image of God simply because God said so, and for no other reason. After all, since God is spirit, perhaps He is at complete liberty to declare what His material image should look like?

In any case, the doctrine of federal headship is entirely consonant with any kind of polygenic theory of mankind (in this case "polygenic" meaning one in which man has more than a single couple as ancestors). For this doctrine states that Adam is our federal head, our perfect representative; and that God is justified to punish the entire human race through the act of punishing human sin because Adam represents the human race well.

To take a very extreme example: suppose a righteous alien lands in New York City today. Presumably he has a sense of right and wrong, and knows about God and His commands; but seeing the sin of humans and being enticed by it, he joins them in sin. Would this alien be punished? Yes, and in the process he would have shown that if he were in the Garden being told not to eat of the fruit of knowledge he would have done so anyway - he demonstrates that Adam's choice indeed represents him well, and in doing so brings himself under the federal headship of Adam, even though he has no biological link with Adam.

The orthodox doctrine of federal headship says nothing about biological ancestry. It is based purely and entirely upon the impeccable truth of God's justice.

 

[Merlin]

This is interesting.

Firstly, is Adam the first human God created? When I read Genesis that's what I think but I'm not sure my understanding is necessarily correct.



Assuming Adam is the first human God created then the verses you mention makes me think about two things.

1) Could God have created other humans the same way He created Adam, meaning the rest are not sons and daughters of Adam and Eve but are still human?

2.) If not,then does that mean there are those of us that are not human, or entirely human?

what is human?
son-of-man is a translation error. son-of-Adam is more precise.
why emphasize son-of-Adam unless other than son-of-Adam is possible?

 

[juvenissun]

personally,
i believe there were humanoid-like creatures here.

Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

===================

Gen 4:14 and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

who could that be? There's only 3 people on earth, right?

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife;

who could that be? There's only 3 people on earth, right?

and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

a whole city? for a family of 3?

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

finally a 4th person.
But no women yet.

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

ah!
Now women

YMMV

Thanks for the explanation.

I have a simpler version to solve your problems: Adam and Eve gave birth to many children in the Garden. (there was no pain to give birth before the sin !). When Adam was kicked out, everyone was kicked out at the same time. Cain, Abel, Seth etc. are children born after the sin.

Imagine, if you gave birth to 100 children and all of them gave births to their children etc. After a few generations, many of your offsprings would probably not recognize you as their grandma or great grandma. That could be the situation of Eve after been kicked out of the Garden. Since it would become painful to give birth after sin, their sons and daughters might also be not that many.

 

[Assyrian]

And these children in the garden were born without Original Sin right?

 

[parsa]

Shernren,

"The orthodox doctrine of federal headship says nothing about biological ancestry. It is based purely and entirely upon the impeccable truth of God's justice. "

I do not find it an injustice if God chooses to subject different laws to His different creations.


Merlin,

So if only sons/daughters of Adam are human, but they did mix with none humans(like Cain's wife) what does that mean?

I mean what practical implications does it have?

Well I guess I'm mainly thinking that Jesus was sent to save sons of Adam, right? So if we're mixed, or worse some of us are not mixed at all, totally non human,though I guess that's almost impossible...Then where does this leave us with Jesus's message?

 

[juvenissun]

And these children in the garden were born without Original Sin right?

I would think it is correct. So?

 

[Merlin]

Merlin,

So if only sons/daughters of Adam are human, but they did mix with none humans(like Cain's wife) what does that mean?

I mean what practical implications does it have?

Well I guess I'm mainly thinking that Jesus was sent to save sons of Adam, right? So if we're mixed, or worse some of us are not mixed at all, totally non human, though I guess that's almost impossible...Then where does this leave us with Jesus's message?

I don't know if mixed beings or non-Adamites survived the flood.
It may be one of the reasons for the flood.
The flood did purge the nephilim.
Noah was of Seth's line
It's really impossible to know about these things.
We can only guess.

My guess fits with archeology
My guess fits with the Hindu Vedas
My guess fits with Lemuria, Atlantis, and other stories
My guess fits with North American native legends
My guess does not necessitate evolution.
But it's just a guess
The only thing authoritative (to me) is the Bible
while the Bible may hint at possibilities, it is authoritatively silent.

I don't think this effects Jesus' message at all.