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What Bible do you use?

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Epiphoskei

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That story about James sounds like a myth to me. At least I've never heard anything about it, and I'm sure there were more than 9 translators.

The text type which the KJV used is often called the recieved text, or textus receptus, however it's fallen out of use in scholarship because it's clearly errant in several places. All modern translations come from what is called a critical text, which is to say that scholars gathered all the existing texts together and tried to determine what the text most reasonably originally said. Alexandrinus is one of the texts analyzed, but it is not the source of any modern translation. And if the copyist(s) of Alexandrinus really despised the deity of Christ he certainly didn't do a good job of expunging it, since the text is largely identical.

Certain manuscripts do have more or less titles of God or Christ. Some may say "the Lord" and others "the Lord God," etc., however nothing is significantly lost or added in most any of these variants. It is more reasonable to assume that these worked their way into the text by copyists simply being accustomed to writing out fuller titles, rather than some great anti-Jesus conspiracy.
 
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BereanTodd

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if my memory serves, the greek manuscripts were found in Spain somewhere and King James being the ruthless guy he was, had 9 scholars in groups of 3 I believe and threatened that if they wrongly interpreted the manuscripts wrongly they faced death.

my pastor told me something about the KJV bible being the "textus receptus" the most accepted interpretation. the NIV came from I learned from the alexandrious(spelling?) texts and he despised the deity of GOD.

Read acts 17:10-11. The Bereans were honored because they not only listened to the apostles but they daily checked to see if what they were being told was true. Do the same. Don't take your pastor's word for it. Because what he has said above is, at best, very skewed and misinformed, and at worst completely intentionally lieing.
 
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arunma

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That story about James sounds like a myth to me. At least I've never heard anything about it, and I'm sure there were more than 9 translators.

The text type which the KJV used is often called the recieved text, or textus receptus, however it's fallen out of use in scholarship because it's clearly errant in several places. All modern translations come from what is called a critical text, which is to say that scholars gathered all the existing texts together and tried to determine what the text most reasonably originally said. Alexandrinus is one of the texts analyzed, but it is not the source of any modern translation. And if the copyist(s) of Alexandrinus really despised the deity of Christ he certainly didn't do a good job of expunging it, since the text is largely identical.

Certain manuscripts do have more or less titles of God or Christ. Some may say "the Lord" and others "the Lord God," etc., however nothing is significantly lost or added in most any of these variants. It is more reasonable to assume that these worked their way into the text by copyists simply being accustomed to writing out fuller titles, rather than some great anti-Jesus conspiracy.

I use ONLY the KJV. I believe that it was translated from the actual greek manuscripts

This is well and good, but belief must be based on fact. Would you agree? The Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, is a compilation of several different manuscripts, none of which were very ancient. Modern Bibles are translated from manuscripts that date back as early as 250 AD. Make sure your faith is well-founded and not blind, because God never demanded blind faith from anyone. Blind faith tends to lead to false religion, and ultimately hell.

if my memory serves, the greek manuscripts were found in Spain somewhere and King James being the ruthless guy he was, had 9 scholars in groups of 3 I believe and threatened that if they wrongly interpreted the manuscripts wrongly they faced death.

Never heard this story before. The history of the KJV translation is fairly well documented, and you can read about it. It was done in a reasonably responsible manner, though King James banned the translators from adding margin notes and wanted the KJV to conform to the ecclesiology of the Anglican Church. Perhaps that's why the KJV uses words such as "bishop" (the Anglican Church was and still is episcopal in authority structure). I encourage you to do a bit of research. Can you find this story documented by any legitimate historian?

my pastor told me something about the KJV bible being the "textus receptus" the most accepted interpretation. the NIV came from I learned from the alexandrious(spelling?) texts and he despised the deity of GOD.

Ask yourself: does this conform to the word of God? Your translation of choice says,
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)
Modern Bibles, based on the Alexandrian manuscripts, repeatedly teach the Lordship and divinity of Jesus Christ. I could quote scores of verses which speak to this effect, if you so desire. Attributing the works of God to Satan is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:27,31). So as a brother I lovingly urge you to be careful what you say and believe about modern Bible translations. The problem with KJV-only propaganda is that it promulgates lies about modern translations, Bible translators, and Christians who use these translations. I am not a liberal Christian or a heretic. I confess the virgin birth, deity, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in the inerrency of the Scriptures. I believe that salvation comes only by faith in Jesus Christ, and that all non-Christians are condemned to hell. I hope that you will trust me as a fellow Christian. And in this capacity I am telling you that KJV-onlyism is an outright lie. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Alexandrian manuscript line is "satanic," that the Alexandrian scribes despised Christ, or that they rejected his divinity. Be reasonable: why would a satanic translation teach that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of God? Why would the devil teach that salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works? Why would Satan inspire a Bible translation which calls the devil a liar and the father of lies, and which teaches us to glorify God and obey the Gospel of his Son?

A common KJV-only charge is that the Bible claims that nothing good can come from Alexandria. This is not true, because the Bible states that Apollos, who was well-known among the apostles, was a native of Alexandria (Acts 18:24). Saint Athanasius, who was the bishop of Alexandria in the fourth century, was one of the most vehement defenders of Christ's divinity, and opposed the Arian heresy at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. But proponents of KJV-onlyism will neglect these facts because they are liars.

KJV-onlyism is based on blatently fradulent claims about history and on gross misinterpretations of Scripture. It shuts the Kingdom of Heaven in men's faces by forcing Christians to read an archaic translation written in a form of English which has a very different meaning than the current vernacular. I strongly encourage you to do as Todd suggested. If KJV-only doctrine is true, then you should be able to find it in the Bible. KJV-onlyists will usually cite Biblical passages in which God has promised to preserve his word. Remember: every one of those passages is also found in modern Bibles. God's promise to preserve his word does not mean that he has promised to preserve it in the form of the King James Bible. Formulating doctrine without a Scriptural basis leads to heresy, and often to hell. I have the utmost respect for church authority, but don't believe something just because a pastor says it's true.
 
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Beckyy25

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Nice idea this thread Cody :thumbsup:

I use the NKJV because that's the only English Bible I have at home. But in the net I mostly use the NIV from Biblegateway, but sometimes also KJV.

My mother tongue is Romanian, so I also have several Romanian Bibles (the Cornilescu version) at home. Also I have a German Bible, Martin Luther version and an Italian one, the second edition of 'Nuova Riveduta'.

I prefer the Romanian Cornilescu version because it's the most accurate translation I've read until now, but I often compare the texts with all other Bibles I have, this helps in understanding better things or clarifying certain unclear issues.
 
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edie19

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This is well and good, but belief must be based on fact. Would you agree? The Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, is a compilation of several different manuscripts, none of which were very ancient. Modern Bibles are translated from manuscripts that date back as early as 250 AD. Make sure your faith is well-founded and not blind, because God never demanded blind faith from anyone. Blind faith tends to lead to false religion, and ultimately hell.



Never heard this story before. The history of the KJV translation is fairly well documented, and you can read about it. It was done in a reasonably responsible manner, though King James banned the translators from adding margin notes and wanted the KJV to conform to the ecclesiology of the Anglican Church. Perhaps that's why the KJV uses words such as "bishop" (the Anglican Church was and still is episcopal in authority structure). I encourage you to do a bit of research. Can you find this story documented by any legitimate historian?



Ask yourself: does this conform to the word of God? Your translation of choice says,
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)
Modern Bibles, based on the Alexandrian manuscripts, repeatedly teach the Lordship and divinity of Jesus Christ. I could quote scores of verses which speak to this effect, if you so desire. Attributing the works of God to Satan is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:27,31). So as a brother I lovingly urge you to be careful what you say and believe about modern Bible translations. The problem with KJV-only propaganda is that it promulgates lies about modern translations, Bible translators, and Christians who use these translations. I am not a liberal Christian or a heretic. I confess the virgin birth, deity, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in the inerrency of the Scriptures. I believe that salvation comes only by faith in Jesus Christ, and that all non-Christians are condemned to hell. I hope that you will trust me as a fellow Christian. And in this capacity I am telling you that KJV-onlyism is an outright lie. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Alexandrian manuscript line is "satanic," that the Alexandrian scribes despised Christ, or that they rejected his divinity. Be reasonable: why would a satanic translation teach that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of God? Why would the devil teach that salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works? Why would Satan inspire a Bible translation which calls the devil a liar and the father of lies, and which teaches us to glorify God and obey the Gospel of his Son?

A common KJV-only charge is that the Bible claims that nothing good can come from Alexandria. This is not true, because the Bible states that Apollos, who was well-known among the apostles, was a native of Alexandria (Acts 18:24). Saint Athanasius, who was the bishop of Alexandria in the fourth century, was one of the most vehement defenders of Christ's divinity, and opposed the Arian heresy at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. But proponents of KJV-onlyism will neglect these facts because they are liars.

KJV-onlyism is based on blatently fradulent claims about history and on gross misinterpretations of Scripture. It shuts the Kingdom of Heaven in men's faces by forcing Christians to read an archaic translation written in a form of English which has a very different meaning than the current vernacular. I strongly encourage you to do as Todd suggested. If KJV-only doctrine is true, then you should be able to find it in the Bible. KJV-onlyists will usually cite Biblical passages in which God has promised to preserve his word. Remember: every one of those passages is also found in modern Bibles. God's promise to preserve his word does not mean that he has promised to preserve it in the form of the King James Bible. Formulating doctrine without a Scriptural basis leads to heresy, and often to hell. I have the utmost respect for church authority, but don't believe something just because a pastor says it's true.

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This is well and good, but belief must be based on fact. Would you agree? The Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, is a compilation of several different manuscripts, none of which were very ancient. Modern Bibles are translated from manuscripts that date back as early as 250 AD. Make sure your faith is well-founded and not blind, because God never demanded blind faith from anyone. Blind faith tends to lead to false religion, and ultimately hell.



Never heard this story before. The history of the KJV translation is fairly well documented, and you can read about it. It was done in a reasonably responsible manner, though King James banned the translators from adding margin notes and wanted the KJV to conform to the ecclesiology of the Anglican Church. Perhaps that's why the KJV uses words such as "bishop" (the Anglican Church was and still is episcopal in authority structure). I encourage you to do a bit of research. Can you find this story documented by any legitimate historian?



Ask yourself: does this conform to the word of God? Your translation of choice says,
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)
Modern Bibles, based on the Alexandrian manuscripts, repeatedly teach the Lordship and divinity of Jesus Christ. I could quote scores of verses which speak to this effect, if you so desire. Attributing the works of God to Satan is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:27,31). So as a brother I lovingly urge you to be careful what you say and believe about modern Bible translations. The problem with KJV-only propaganda is that it promulgates lies about modern translations, Bible translators, and Christians who use these translations. I am not a liberal Christian or a heretic. I confess the virgin birth, deity, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in the inerrency of the Scriptures. I believe that salvation comes only by faith in Jesus Christ, and that all non-Christians are condemned to hell. I hope that you will trust me as a fellow Christian. And in this capacity I am telling you that KJV-onlyism is an outright lie. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Alexandrian manuscript line is "satanic," that the Alexandrian scribes despised Christ, or that they rejected his divinity. Be reasonable: why would a satanic translation teach that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of God? Why would the devil teach that salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works? Why would Satan inspire a Bible translation which calls the devil a liar and the father of lies, and which teaches us to glorify God and obey the Gospel of his Son?

A common KJV-only charge is that the Bible claims that nothing good can come from Alexandria. This is not true, because the Bible states that Apollos, who was well-known among the apostles, was a native of Alexandria (Acts 18:24). Saint Athanasius, who was the bishop of Alexandria in the fourth century, was one of the most vehement defenders of Christ's divinity, and opposed the Arian heresy at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. But proponents of KJV-onlyism will neglect these facts because they are liars.

KJV-onlyism is based on blatently fradulent claims about history and on gross misinterpretations of Scripture. It shuts the Kingdom of Heaven in men's faces by forcing Christians to read an archaic translation written in a form of English which has a very different meaning than the current vernacular. I strongly encourage you to do as Todd suggested. If KJV-only doctrine is true, then you should be able to find it in the Bible. KJV-onlyists will usually cite Biblical passages in which God has promised to preserve his word. Remember: every one of those passages is also found in modern Bibles. God's promise to preserve his word does not mean that he has promised to preserve it in the form of the King James Bible. Formulating doctrine without a Scriptural basis leads to heresy, and often to hell. I have the utmost respect for church authority, but don't believe something just because a pastor says it's true.

Amen brother very well said.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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I use the KJV for several reasons: I believe it is as good a translation as most, the language is rich and often the best at conveying the meaning of many words when actually studied out in both the Greek, Hebrew and English. One example is the word translated charity. When you actually consider what the word charity meant to the KJV translators rather than what it means in modern English it makes the meaning much richer than just translating to love. Because I have used it for many years now it is the one I am most familiar with. As with all translations there are words and phrases that could be better translated in it. I use other translations as well in study but abhor all those paraphrased versions that aren't translations such as the Message and The Living Bible. The translation I dislike the most is the NIV.
 
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Epiphoskei

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Admittadly the KJV has richer language, however sometimes that can get you into more trouble than it's worth.

For instance, I've heard a Catholic priest defend indulgences using that very example you gave, the translation of love as charity. "Charity covers over a multitude of sins," he said. That's beyond the bound of agape, and if had just said love, we wouldn't have this problem.
 
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edie19

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it's funny - a few of us just happened to be talking about this after church today. One of the gentlemen who attends my church is of Greek background - he mentioned that Greek has words for everything and how sometimes folks just have to do the best they can when translating from Greek because no other language has the all the same words. One of his examples John 1:18
KJV
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
NASB
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
According to Jim the Greek correctly translates to only begotten God.

But that's beside the point.

My pastor pointed out some things that hadn't occurred to me re: the KJVO discussion.

1. KJVO onlyism tends to be debated most among Baptists.

2. As the British monarch King James was the head of the Church of England. Historically Baptists believe in separation of church and state and state that the church has only one head - Jesus the Christ. Anyone who stands in His stead is considered an antiChrist.

3. The Textus Receptus (upon which the KJV translation is based) was compiled by a paedobaptist Roman Catholic (Erasmus).

Neither of those things make the KJV a bad translation - but it is interesting.
 
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arunma

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it's funny - a few of us just happened to be talking about this after church today. One of the gentlemen who attends my church is of Greek background - he mentioned that Greek has words for everything and how sometimes folks just have to do the best they can when translating from Greek because no other language has the all the same words. One of his examples John 1:18
KJV

NASB

According to Jim the Greek correctly translates to only begotten God.

But that's beside the point.

My pastor pointed out some things that hadn't occurred to me re: the KJVO discussion.

1. KJVO onlyism tends to be debated most among Baptists.

2. As the British monarch King James was the head of the Church of England. Historically Baptists believe in separation of church and state and state that the church has only one head - Jesus the Christ. Anyone who stands in His stead is considered an antiChrist.

3. The Textus Receptus (upon which the KJV translation is based) was compiled by a paedobaptist Roman Catholic (Erasmus).

Neither of those things make the KJV a bad translation - but it is interesting.

Very interesting, I didn't know that Erasmus was a Roman Catholic. It's a bit disturbing, I think, because the Catholic Church had more or less plunged into apostasy by this time in history (and it remains there to this day). Anyway, all of this makes for strange bedfellows, I think. We can see that churches that lean KJV-only may even be committing many other follies that for a long time distinguished the Catholic Church. Our old friend RichardT, who used frequent this forum and who was a staunch defender of KJV-onlyism, attended a church which also taught that the Sun and solar system orbit the earth! I think that KJV-onlyism requires a certain suspension of disbelief which leads to a rejection of the very notion of truth. Church dogmas then fill the spiritual vacuum. It's a very dangerous doctrine indeed.
 
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Epiphoskei

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Of course there isn't any problem if you like it and can understand it. No one is "bashing" the KJV, it just has its faults like every translation. What is a problem is the KJV only movement, and since two different KJV only-ers have posted in this thread, we've had to adress that error here.
 
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arunma

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I read the KJV, but I have no problem with the other versions. It's just easier for me to stick with one version of the bible. That being said, why are you people bashing the KJV?? THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH READING THE KJV!!

No one here is saying there's anything wrong with reading the KJV. I have a KJV on my bookshelf (though I rarely use it these days). And no one should bash the translation. For well over two hundred years it was the Bible for English-speakers. There is, however, a severe problem with saying that God specially inspired the KJV Bible, that other manuscripts of the Bible that Christians worked to preserve are inspired by Satan (= blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). Such a belief is founded on lies and mislabels good as evil (which is sin according to Isaiah 5:20). Therefore we must vehemently oppose this heresy and lovingly correct our brothers who have strayed into it. We must also attack the beliefs of pastors and authors who write to support these doctrines, because they have lying tongues and hate the truth. They cause divisions in the church with their foolish doctrines: this is a work of the flesh according to Galatians 5:20, and Jude 1:19 says that people who do this are devoid of the Spirit. We can't let Christ's church be destroyed by such a groundless and arbitrary doctrine. This isn't an issue of agreeing to disagree. KJV-onlyism is just plain wrong. It hasn't a Scriptural leg to stand on, and must be purged from the church.
 
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DeaconDean

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No one here is saying there's anything wrong with reading the KJV. I have a KJV on my bookshelf (though I rarely use it these days). And no one should bash the translation. For well over two hundred years it was the Bible for English-speakers. There is, however, a severe problem with saying that God specially inspired the KJV Bible, that other manuscripts of the Bible that Christians worked to preserve are inspired by Satan (= blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). Such a belief is founded on lies and mislabels good as evil (which is sin according to Isaiah 5:20). Therefore we must vehemently oppose this heresy and lovingly correct our brothers who have strayed into it. We must also attack the beliefs of pastors and authors who write to support these doctrines, because they have lying tongues and hate the truth. They cause divisions in the church with their foolish doctrines: this is a work of the flesh according to Galatians 5:20, and Jude 1:19 says that people who do this are devoid of the Spirit. We can't let Christ's church be destroyed by such a groundless and arbitrary doctrine. This isn't an issue of agreeing to disagree. KJV-onlyism is just plain wrong. It hasn't a Scriptural leg to stand on, and must be purged from the church.

Brother, I agree whole-heartedly with all you said except for your last sentence.

As a Southern Baptist, we have dealt with just this type of arguement in seminary.

What it really boils down to is that as you said, the KJV Bible has served the church well, and faithfully since 1611. And I dare say, that if this world continues, it will continue to serve the church well for another 400 years.

But I personally see nothing wrong with a church deciding for itself that it wants the KJV (or amy other version for that matter) as its default version.

If you don't like a church that uses the KJV, find another. Personally, I don't like the NIV, and if I ever attend or go looking for another church, you can bet it won't be a church that uses the NIV. But I don't condemn that church for using it, and likewise, I don't look down my nose at them either, if that is what they feel most comfortable with, God Bless 'em.

But I will add this, if you can show me one single version that don't have translation errors in it, I convert to that one.

Sure the language is archaic, sure its not taught anymore. But the KJV has been said to be the most beautiful version ever written.

In his book The Word of God in English: Criteria for Excellence in Bible Translation (Wheaton: Crossway Book, 2002), Dr. Leland Ryken, professor of English at Wheaton College, continually applauds the KJV, praising its beauty, dignity, and power. He uses it as an example of what good Bible translation is all about. He calls for modern translation work to be done after “the King James tradition” (p. 282, 284). The book contains many quotations exalting the KJV.
“peerless literary masterpiece” (p. 270) “unquestionably the most beautiful book in the world” (p. 267) “the noblest monument of English prose” (p. 258) “incomparably the best English translation in its rhythm” (p. 259) “when it comes to stylistic range and flexibility, the King James Bible is peerless” (p. 227) “the touchstone of affective power” (p. 206) “matchless in its literary qualities among all English translations” (p. 188) “the supremely literary English translation” (p. 163) “immeasurably superior” (p. 163) “the touchstone of literary excellence” (p. 62) “stylistically the greatest English Bible translation ever produced” (p. 51)

Here is what others have said:

Matthew Poole, 1669: “In the English version published in 1611, occur many specimens of an edition truly gigantic, of uncommon skill in the original tongues, or extraordinary critical acuteness and discrimination, which have been of great use to me very frequently in the most difficult texts” (Poole, Synopsis Criticorum; cited from James Lister, The Excellence of the Authorized Version of the Sacred Scriptures Defended against the Socinians, 1820, p. 17).

Edward Pocock, commentary on Micah, 1685: “That translation from our own which we follow is such and so speakable to the original, as that we might well choose among others to follow it, were it not our own, and established by authority among us.”

Jonathan Swift, 1712: “The translators of our Bible were masters of an English style much fitter for that work than any which we see in our present writings, which I take to be owing to the simplicity that runs through the whole” (Jonathan Swift, A Proposal for Correcting, Improving, and Ascertaining the English Tongue, London, 1712).

Adam Clarke, 1810: “Those who have compared most of the European translations with the original, have not scrupled to say, that the English translation of the Bible made under the direction of king James I, is the most accurate and faithful of the whole. Nor is this its only praise; THE TRANSLATORS HAVE SEIZED THE VERY SPIRIT AND SOUL OF THE ORIGINAL AND EXPRESSED THIS ALMOST EVERYWHERE WITH PATHOS AND ENERGY. The original, from which it was taken, is alone superior to the Bible which was translated by the authority of king James. ... Besides, our translators have not only made a standard translation, but they have made their translation the standard of our language. ... This is an opinion in which my heart, my judgment, and my conscience coincide” (Adam Clarke, General Introduction to his Commentary on the Whole Bible, 1810-26).

William Orme, 1824: “Like every thing human, it is no doubt imperfect; but as a translation of the Bible, it has few rivals, and AS A WHOLE, NO SUPERIOR. It is in general faithful, simple, and perspicuous. IT HAS SEIZED THE SPIRIT AND COPIED THE MANNER OF THE DIVINE ORIGINALS. It seldom descends to meanness or vulgarity; but often rises to elegance and sublimity. It is level to the understanding of the cottager, and fit to meet the eye of the critic, the poet, and the philosopher. It has been the companion of our princes and our nobility, and prized by many of them as their most invaluable treasure. It is the birthright of our numerous population, and has proved the means of knowledge, holiness and joy to millions; and WE TRUST IT IS DESTINED FOR AGES YET TO COME, to be the glory of the rich, and the inheritance of the poor; the guide to the way-worn pilgrim, and the messenger of peace to many a dying sinner” (William Orme, Bibliotheca Biblica: a Select List of Books on Sacred Literature, with Notices Biographical, Critical, and Bibliographical, 1824).

Thomas Fanshaw Middleton, 1841: “The style of our present version is incomparably superior to any thing which might be expected from the finical and perverted taste of our own age. It is simple, it is harmonious, it is energetic; and, which is of no small importance, use has made it familiar, and time has rendered it sacred” (Middleton, first Anglican bishop of Calcutta, The Doctrine of the Greek Article Applied to the Criticism and Illustration of the New Testament, 1841).

John Dowling, Baptist leader in America and author of History of Romanism, 1850: “The fact is that the common version which it is proposed to amend, is, taken as a whole, a wonderful translation, and although it may be conceded that it is not perfect--for what human performance is so?--yet it is exceedingly doubtful, whether a translation has ever been made from any ancient book, Greek, Latin, or Oriental--which in point of faithfulness to its original can be compared with this, or which has fewer errors in proportion to the entire amount of its contents. ... TO ATTEMPT TO SUPPLANT IT BY A ‘NEW VERSION,’ OR TO INTRODUCE ANY MATERIAL ALTERATIONS, WOULD BE LIKE ‘GILDING REFINED GOLD’...” (The Old-Fashioned Bible, or Ten Reasons against the Proposed Baptist Version of the New Testament, 1850, pp. 11, 12, 13).

Arthur Cleveland Coxe, Episcopalian bishop in western New York, 1857: “The Holy Scriptures, as translated in the reign of king James the First, are THE NOBLEST HERITAGE OF THE ANGLO-SAXON RACE. ... It was the work, in some degree, of all, who, in the successive stages of England’s growth and development, had contributed to that great principle of the Anglican Reformation ... It was the Bible of Adhelm and Bede and Aelfric and of Alfred; of Stephen Langton and Rolle of Hampole; of Wiclif and Tindal and Coverdale and Cranmer and Parker, and of all the noble army of Marian Martyrs. Finally, it was the Bible which had been winnowed from whatever was unsubstantial in the fruits of all their labours, and which combined the merits of all; IT WAS THE FINEST OF THE WHEAT. ... The English language was in its prime and purity; its wells were undefiled. ... BY THE ACCLAMATION OF THE UNIVERSE, IT IS THE MOST FAULTLESS VERSION OF THE SCRIPTURES THAT EVER EXISTED IN ANY TONGUE. To complain of its trifling blemishes, is to complain of the sun for its spots. ... ” (Coxe, An Apology for the Common English Bible, 1857, pp. 5, 6, 8).

Joseph Philpot, 1861: “They [the KJV translators] were deeply penetrated with a reverence for the word of God, and, therefore, they felt themselves bound by a holy constraint to discharge their trust in the most faithful way. UNDER THIS DIVINE CONSTRAINT THEY WERE LED TO GIVE US A TRANSLATION UNEQUALLED FOR FAITHFULNESS TO THE ORIGINAL, AND YET AT THE SAME TIME CLOTHED IN THE PUREST AND SIMPLEST ENGLISH. ... No one can read, with an enlightened eye, the discourses of our Lord without seeing what a divine simplicity ran through all His words; and our translators were favoured with heavenly wisdom to translate these words of the Lord into language as simple as that in which they first fell from His lips. What can exceed the simplicity and yet beauty and blessedness of such declarations as these?--‘I am the bread of life;’ ‘I am the door;’ ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life:’ ‘I lay down My life for the sheep;’ ‘I am the vine;’ ‘God is love;’ ‘By grace ye are saved.’ Even where the words are not strictly monosyllabic they are of the simplest kind, and as such are adapted to the capacity of every child of God, in whatever rank of life he may be. The blessedness of having not only such a Bible, but possessing such a translation of it can never be sufficiently valued. ... it is because the language of our Bible is such pure, simple, unaffected, idiomatic, intelligible English that it has become so thoroughly English a book, and has interwoven itself with our very laws and language” (Joseph Philpot, Gospel Standard, February 1861). [COMMENT: As we have seen, the purity and simplicity of the language of the KJV regularly goes back to William Tyndale, and some times even to Wycliffe.]

Frederick Scrivener, 1884: “Nor can the attentive student of the Authorized version fail to marvel at the perfect and easy command over the English language exhibited by its authors on every page. The fulness and variety of their diction, the raciness of their idiomatic resources, seem almost to defy imitation, while they claim our just and cheerful admiration” (The Authorized Edition of the English Bible, p. 141).

William Muir, Our Grand Old Bible, 1911:“The influence of the Authorised Version, alike on our religion and our literature, can never be exaggerated. ... The Authorized Version has often been called A WELL OF ENGLISH UNDEFILED, and much of its purity is due to the fact that its water was drawn from the ancient springs. It has the universal note which gives it a place among the immortals. IT HAS THE DIVINE TOUCH, EVEN IN ITS DICTION, WHICH LIFTS IT ABOVE THE LIMITATIONS OF LOCALITY AND TIME, AND MAKES IT VALID AND LIVING FOR ALL THE AGES. Like A RARE JEWEL FITLY SET, the sacred truths of Scripture have found such suitable expression in it, that we can hardly doubt that they filled those who made it with reverence and awe, so that they walked softly in the Holy Presence. ... THE ENGLISH BIBLE IS STILL FRESH AND MIGHTY, EVEN IF IT HAS ARCHAIC OR OBSOLETE WORDS. IT HAS WAXED OLD, BUT IT HAS NOT DECAYED. ITS YOUTH ABIDES, AND THE SUN NEVER SETS ON ITS SPHERE OF INFLUENCE. Many volumes have perished since it first saw the light; but its message is as modern as ever. It has not only kept up-to-date, it has anticipated every need of men, and still responds to every new demand” (Muir, Our Grand Old Bible, 1911, pp. 131, 192, 238).

Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch, critic, scholar, and educational reformer, 1913: “I grant you, to be sure, that the path to the Authorised Version was made straight by previous translators, notably by William Tyndale. I grant you that Tyndale was a man of genius, and Wyclif before him a man of genius. I grant you that the forty-seven men who produced the Authorised Version worked in the main upon Tyndale’s version, taking that for their basis. Nay, if you choose to say that Tyndale was a miracle in himself, I cheerfully grant you that as well. ... and when Tyndale has been granted you have yet to face the miracle that forty-seven men--not one of them known, outside of this performance, for any superlative talent--sat in committee and almost consistently, over a vast extent of work--improved upon what Genius had done. I give you the word of an old committee-man that this is not the way of committees--that only by miracle is it the way of any committee. ... Individual genius such as Tyndale’s or even Shakespeare’s, though we cannot explain it, we may admit as occurring somehow, and not incredibly, in the course of nature. But THAT A LARGE COMMITTEE OF FORTY-SEVEN SHOULD HAVE GONE STEADILY THROUGH THE GREAT MASS OF HOLY WRIT, SELDOM INTERFERING WITH GENIUS, YET, WHEN INTERFERING, SELDOM MISSING TO IMPROVE: THAT A COMMITTEE OF FORTY-SEVEN SHOULD HAVE CAPTURED (OR EVEN, LET US SAY, SHOULD HAVE RETAINED AND IMPROVED) A RHYTHM SO PERSONAL, SO CONSTANT, THAT OUR BIBLE HAS THE VOICE OF ONE AUTHOR SPEAKING THROUGH ITS MANY MOUTHS: THAT, GENTLEMEN, IS A WONDER BEFORE WHICH I CAN ONLY STAND HUMBLE AND AGHAST. Does it or does it not strike you as queer that the people who set you ‘courses of study’ in English Literature never include the Authorised Version, which not only intrinsically but historically is out and away the greatest book of English Prose. ... the Authorised Version astounds me, as I believe it will astound you when you compare it with earlier translations. Aristotle (it has been said) invented Chance to cover the astonishing fact that there were certain phenomena for which he found himself wholly unable to account. Just so, if one may compare very small things with very great, I spoke of the Authorised Version as a ‘miracle.’ It was, it remains, marvellous to me. ... were this University to limit me to three texts on which to preach English Literature to you, I should choose the Bible in our Authorised Version, Shakespeare, and Homer (though it were but in a prose translation)” (On the Art of Writing, Lectures delivered before the University of Cambridge, 1913-14).

John Livingston Lowes (1867-1945), American scholar of English literature, 1936, called the King James Bible “THE NOBLEST MONUMENT OF ENGLISH PROSE.” This was the title of the chapter that he contributed to Essays in Appreciation (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1936).

Arthur Clutton-Brock, essayist, critic, and journalist, 1938, said: “The Authorized Version of the Bible is a piece of literature without any parallel in modern times. Other countries of course, have their translations of the Bible, but they are not great works of art” (Vernon Storr, editor, The English Bible: Essays by Various Writers,Clutton-Brock, “The English Bible,” 1938).

H. Wheeler Robinson, Ancient and English Versions of the Bible, 1940: “The Authorized Version is a miracle and a landmark. Its felicities are manifold, its music has entered into the very blood and marrow of English thought and speech, it has given countless proverbs and proverbial phrases even to the unlearned and the irreligious. There is no corner of English life, no conversation ribald or reverent it has not adorned. Embedded in its tercentenary wording is the language of a century earlier. IT HAS BOTH BROADENED AND RETARDED THE STREAM OF ENGLISH SPEECH” (Robinson, Ancient and English Versions of the Bible, p. 205).

Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956), “the most prominent newspaperman, book reviewer, and political commentator of his day,” said this about the King James Bible: “It is the most beautiful of all the translations of the Bible; indeed, IT IS PROBABLY THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF WRITING IN ALL THE LITERATURE OF THE WORLD. ... Its English is extraordinarily simple, pure, eloquent, lovely. It is a mine of lordly and incomparable poetry, at once the most stirring and the most touching ever heard of” (Gustavas Paine, Preface, The Learned Men).

Winston Churchill, 1956: “The scholars who produced this masterpiece are mostly unknown and unremembered. But they forged an enduring link, literary and religious, between the English-speaking people of the world” (History of the English-Speaking People, “The New World”).

Gustavus Paine, author of The Men Behind the KJV, 1977, wrote: “... not only was theirs the best of the English Bibles; there is, in no modern language, a Bible worthy to be compared with it as literature. ... indeed the 1611 rhythms have been potent to affect writing, speaking, and thinking ever since the learned men produced them. ... They knew how to make the Bible scare the wits out of you and then calm you, all in English as superb as the Hebrew and the Greek” (pp. 169, 171, 172).

When Harvard University Press published The Literary Guide to the Bible in 1987, they selected the KJV for the literary analysis of each of the Bible books. “... our reasons for doing so must be obvious: it is the version most English readers associate with the literary qualities of the Bible, and IT IS STILL ARGUABLY THE VERSION THAT BEST PRESERVES THE LITERARY EFFECTS OF THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES” (The Literary Guide to the Bible, p. 7).

Jonathan Yardley, Washington Post: “The King James Bible is THE GREATEST WORK EVER WRITTEN IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, PERIOD” (quoted in Adam Nicholson, God’s Secretaries, in the section “Praise for God’s Secretaries” which follows the table of contents).

David Daniell, 2003: “On a historical scale, the sheer longevity of this version is a phenomenon, without parallel. ... IN THE STORY OF THE EARTH WE LIVE ON, ITS INFLUENCE CANNOT BE CALCULATED. ITS WORDS HAVE BEEN FOUND TO HAVE A UNIQUE QUALITY, of being able both to lift up a dedicated soul higher than had been thought, and to reach even below the lowest depths of human experience” (David Daniell, The Bible in English, p. 427).

Adam Nicholson, 2003: “The marvels of this passage [Psalm 8:3-5] consist above all in one quality, or at least in one combination of qualities: AN ABSOLUTE SIMPLICITY OF VOCABULARY SET IN A RHYTHM OF THE UTMOST STATELINESS AND MAJESTY. The words are necessarily slowed to a muffled drumbeat of a pace. There is no hurrying this, no running away with it, as a Shakespeare speech can sometimes hurry, a rushed cataract of words tripping over itself even as it emerges. The characteristic sound of the King James Bible is not like that but, like the ideal of majesty itself, is indescribably vast and yet perfectly accessible, reaching up to the sublime and down to the immediate and the concrete, without any apparent effort. The rhetoric of this translation has, in fact, precisely the qualities which this psalm attributes to God: a majesty that is mindful of man” (Adam Nicholson, God’s Secretaries, pp. 230, 231).

Now I have said and I'll always maintain that the proper version for each individual is as Erwin Lutzer said is the version you pick up and read and study, whether it is the KJV, the NIV, RSV, ASV, etc.

But personally, I still see nothing wrong with a church deciding for itself whichever version it wants as its default version. (Should it matter that it is the KJV? No, but some make it a matter.)

Which brings up another question. Would people complain if there was a movement that started which called for RSVism only. Would people gripe about that as much as they do about KJV onlyers?

KJV onlyism, is it right? No. But is it completely wrong? No.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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the particular baptist

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Greetings brother. I dont think the beef is that churches use the KJV for uniformity but that the agenda of KJVonlyism is that the KJV is superior over all others because it is advanced revelation. We recommend the ESV at our church for uniformity but how many here would correct me if i said we insist that the ESV is superior to all others because since Grudem and Piper worked on it it is advanced revelation ?
 
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BereanTodd

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Dean, come on you are smarter than that. No one here has a problem with a church deciding to use the kJV as its default version. That is not what KJOism is. KJOism says not just that "we choose to use the kJV" but that the KJV is the ONLY inspired version and that all others are wrong/sinful/demonic/in error whereas the KJV is perfect and free of error. THAT is the lie from Satan that we are fighting here.
 
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