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My point is: even atheists may have this kind of experience.
The notorious nihilist philosopher Nietzsche of "God is dead"-fame, for example, has written diary passages that clearly indicate he went through typical mystic experiences (which you'll find in all religious traditions).
My point is: even atheists may have this kind of experience.
The notorious nihilist philosopher Nietzsche of "God is dead"-fame, for example, has written diary passages that clearly indicate he went through typical mystic experiences (which you'll find in all religious traditions).
The difference is how we process it, and that's where upbringing and cultural factors come back into play.
A person going through an extraordinary event in an Islamic culture will most likely attribute it to the Islamic deity. A person experiencing the same in a predominantly Christian culture will perceive it in Christian terms and so on and so forth.
There was a time when I earnestly and eagerly tried to force my own experiences into the Christian template (the way Teresa of Avila or Meister Eckhart did), but it simply didn't work. The pattern was just too small to contain it.
so, maybe Atheists' dis-belief comes from not experiencing those things?Atheists fail to understand that believers don't become believers because they go to church a lot or listen to very charismatic preachers. They believe because of experiencing highly improbable events that common sense insists can not be attributed to blind coincidence alone.
If they did understand this they wouldn't say things like well adam and eve never existed or there was no flood etc..... Because they would understand that a persons faith doesn't come from a book. It comes from experiencing things that you can't possibly believe is merely coincidental. That life isn't just a mere coincidence of coincidences. For example imagine the most improbable things happening to you time after time again. After a long enough time period even the hardest atheist would have to question his atheism. While life is not as extreme as this I think you can at least see where a believer is coming from.
Why are you so dismissive? St. Paul (say) alleged & claimed that he received meaningful, intelligible, audio + video messages, from a God-like Being in heaven. So he said.A lot of us get that, the whole pointing out that personal evidence that was enough to convince one person isn't enough to convenience us is kind of our sthick.
Yes, I do know for a fact that his words do not reflect all believers of God.No, you don't. To be able to say that you have to ask my opinion and every other lover of God on the planet and you have not done this.
I stand by the words I used.To tell the truth, all you can say is that I have no evidence for this but I reckon that lot of other lovers of God would not agree with you. Beyond that is a lie.
"Chemical evolution"? that's a new one on me is it different from the biological process of evolution?There is no evidence for chemical evolution yet that is accepted by most atheists over the idea of special creation. You may exaggerate the role of evidence in an atheists rejection of God.
People really do survive all sorts of crazy things from sheer luck, their was even a man who survived both atomic bombs. I think the problem with viewing your good fortune on a deity who had your interest in mind is encountering people who REALLY didn't survive. Why would a deity who helped you survive say a drowning in a pool, not help another person die slowly from a muscle degenerative disorder by the time he was 19? for every person who miraculous survives something there's another who dosn't why the discrepancy?How would you rationalize such an experience then?
If they did understand this they wouldn't say things like well adam and eve never existed or there was no flood etc..... Because they would understand that a persons faith doesn't come from a book. It comes from experiencing things that you can't possibly believe is merely coincidental.
That life isn't just a mere coincidence of coincidences. For example imagine the most improbable things happening to you time after time again.
"Chemical evolution"? that's a new one on me is it different from the biological process of evolution?
Evolution and how life emerged are two separate things, evolution works regardless of how the first population came into existence.Yes abiogenesis must precede biological evolution or biological evolution can never start and the common ancestry of the diversity of life that has "evolved" today is a myth. The formation of the first life form from chemicals ( the primeval soup) is the current theory via proto cells. There is no empirical proof for any of the current theories on how this might have occurred by naturalistic processes. Yet we require an explanation if a purely naturalistic model is to be taken seriously. Since there is no adequate explanation the theory most used by atheists to explain how life developed on earth collapses.
Basically biological evolution assumes that chemical evolution happened first. But it didn't and cannot and actually a supernatural explanation works better.
People really do survive all sorts of crazy things from sheer luck, their was even a man who survived both atomic bombs. I think the problem with viewing your good fortune on a deity who had your interest in mind is encountering people who REALLY didn't survive. Why would a deity who helped you survive say a drowning in a pool, not help another person die slowly from a muscle degenerative disorder by the time he was 19? for every person who miraculous survives something there's another who dosn't why the discrepancy?
I ment that word more of a "survived against odds" sort of way, but here's a question, whats the difference between a god that randomly selects people who lives, and a god that dosn't exist and these people survived by dumb luck?If one man is saved by miracles then that demonstrates the capability of the Divine and the inadequacy of purely natural explanations. Why one is spared and another not then becomes a theological discussion. You cannot call God unfair unless you believe in Him. But only He knows the full consequence of sparing one life but not another.
Hezekiah in the bible prayed for his life and got 15 years more life. But he fathered Manasseh perhaps the worst ever king of Israel who prepared the way for Judahs ultimate destruction. Christians trust God for the big plan and he does not need to explain Himself to us.
Evolution and how life emerged are two separate things, evolution works regardless of how the first population came into existence.
Yes I do lack an explanation for first life, I've never met an atheist who claims to know how first life came here. Though I do feel jumping to supernatural claims is jumping the gun we don't have enough evidence to say one way or another.So you agree you lack an explanation for the first population. If a supernatural explanation is require here then why not for evolution also.
Actually there are also massive gaps in the evidence for evolution also. For example we lack actual fossil precursors for the Cambrian explosion.
I ment that word more of a "survived against odds" sort of way, but here's a question, whats the difference between a god that randomly selects people who lives, and a god that dosn't exist and these people survived by dumb luck?
Yes I do lack an explanation for first life, I've never met an atheist who claims to know how first life came here. Though I do feel jumping to supernatural claims is jumping the gun we don't have enough evidence to say one way or another.
People have used gods to explain natural phenomenon for ages, and as we have gained better understanding of the world around us we have learned more about our world these views have faded. I'm trying to say "beacuse god" has a horrible track record.Then take it as a model which may or may not be credible. It is more incredible to believe that life in all its complexity spontaneously arose from chemicals than to believe that an infinite, all knowing , all powerful Eternal Being is capable of creating life.
I find it just the opposite. The Universe has within it a need for creativity. And Life springs from that creativity, even if the beginnings is of a chemical nature.Then take it as a model which may or may not be credible. It is more incredible to believe that life in all its complexity spontaneously arose from chemicals than to believe that an infinite, all knowing , all powerful Eternal Being is capable of creating life.
I find it just the opposite. The Universe has within it a need for creativity. And Life springs from that creativity, even if the beginnings is of a chemical nature.
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