What are your thoughts on Mother Teresa?

[rusmeister]

Why not let God worry about Mother Theresa and you worry about youre own soul and preaching the gospel to others ..

Amen, amen, amen!

There's nothing you can do to change others' views, immersion. All you can do (if you're lucky) is to make them think.

My previous post was talking about a reason I could never be a Baptist again, btw.

 

[WarEagle]

Wow you are one righteous person to point that out.(both points)

Doesn't take a righteous person. Just takes a person who reads the Bible and one who knows football.

 

[ImmersionX]

She's probably just in Purgatory then!


























JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

 

[TimRout]

There can be little doubt that Mother Theresa was a wonderful person who did wonderful work. From what I have learned of her over the years, I am also comfortable concluding that she served with a sincere and gracious heart. Indeed, only God can fully measure the good she did through her many decades of faithful service.

That said, her assertion that Jesus is present in the poor of the world is clearly a misinterpretation of Matthew 25:40. Christians form the body of Christ. Those who bless down-and-out Christians (not merely the poor) are therefore blessing Christ. But as others have suggested, this is a relatively minor error on MT's part.

The more significant issue relates to MT's relationship with God. Given that she was a firmly committed Roman Catholic, and given that Rome denies salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, it is difficult to say with certainty that MT is saved.

 

[ImmersionX]

Not that I can and will agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

There can be little doubt that Mother Theresa was a wonderful person who did wonderful work. From what I have learned of her over the years, I am also comfortable concluding that she served with a sincere and gracious heart. Indeed, only God can fully measure the good she did through her many decades of faithful service.

That said, her assertion that Jesus is present in the poor of the world is clearly a misinterpretation of Matthew 25:40. Christians form the body of Christ. Those who bless down-and-out Christians (not merely the poor) are therefore blessing Christ. But as others have suggested, this is a relatively minor error on MT's part.

The more significant issue relates to MT's relationship with God. Given that she was a firmly committed Roman Catholic, and given that Rome denies salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, it is difficult to say with certainty that MT is saved.

If you are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then how on Earth is your salvation jeopardized by not believing that particular doctrine?

You do realize you have what seems to be a logical contradiction?

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

That's not what the Bible says. While God is a God of love, for the sinner, He is also a God of judgement and wrath and the only way for the sinner to assuage God's wrath is to be reconciled to God through Christ and His atonement on the cross.

We don't show them God by our love, important as our love for them may be. We show them God by showing them Christ through the preaching of the Gospel.

Where does the bible say that God is wrath?

Well then, first of all, how do you explain the quotes I cited above, which go directly against the Gospel?

I don't see anything that goes against the Gospel.

Second, do you have any examples of her preaching the Gospel?

Yes, everything she did preached the Gospel.
One preaches the Gospel through love. If you think preaching the Gospel is standing on a street corner shouting passages from the bible, you are going to be wasting your time.

Third, if she brought such "All of India to respect for Christianity" then why are so many Christians in India now being martyred for their faith in Christ?

Because of fanatical Muslims- who believe in a God of wrath and judgment.

]Because it's not about simply "believing in God". It's about men being saved by the preaching of the Gospel.

Which is what she did.
Unfortunately you seem to think the only way to preach the Gospel is to recite passages from the bible and give your own opinions to others regarding salvation.

The Gospel stands on it's own. When the Gospel is preached, men are convicted.

Really, how many people have you converted?

"Believe" in what? Simply believing in God doesn't mean anything. The Bible says in the book of James that even the Devil and his angels "believe" in God.

If she loved them so much, then she would not have been content to keep her mouth shut about the Gospel while they went to Hell.

Believe in Christianity.
I guess I'm a little confused by your post- does God judge the salvation of others or do you? Because you seem to be making a lot of judgments.

 

[WarEagle]

Where does the bible say that God is wrath?

John 3:36
Romans 1:18
Romans 2:5
Romans 2:8
Romans 5:9
Romans 9:22
Eph. 5:6
Col 3:6
1 Thess 1:10
1 Thess 2:16
Rev 6:16
Rev 6:17
Rev 14:10
Rev 14:19
Rev 15:1
Rev 15:7
Rev 16:1
Rev 16:19
Rev 19:15
And that's just the New Testament. There are about 100 more in the Old Testament.

I don't see anything that goes against the Gospel.

The Gospel teaches that it is only by repentance and faith in Christ and His atonement on the cross that we are saved.

By teaching that people can be saved by being better members of a false religion and relying on the rituals of that religion, she is contradicting the Gospel.

Yes, everything she did preached the Gospel.

Then you should have no problem giving an example.

One preaches the Gospel through love. If you think preaching the Gospel is standing on a street corner shouting passages from the bible, you are going to be wasting your time.

I disagree. We see examples of open air preaching all throughout the scriptures, most obviously Peter's sermon in Acts.

I'm assuming that by "through love" you mean doing good deeds. Could you please show me any verse in the Bible that says this is how the Gospel is presented? Because the only model of presenting the Gospel in the Bible is by the preaching and proclaimation of the word of God.

Because of fanatical Muslims- who believe in a God of wrath and judgment.

First of all, they're Hindus, who do not believe in God or His judgement, not Muslims.

Second, the fact that it's happening at all, not to mention in such large numbers, shows that the claim that is false.

Which is what she did.

Then why can't anybody give an example of her doing it?

Unfortunately you seem to think the only way to preach the Gospel is to recite passages from the bible and give your own opinions to others regarding salvation.

I go by the Biblical model, which is proclaiming the word of God.

A very clear example of this would be the Ethiopian eunuch. When he wanted to be saved, what did he do? He went to Phillip and asked him to go through the scriptures with him and explain the Gospel to him.

Likewise, look at the example I provided before, of Peter's sermon in the book of Acts. He stood in the street and boldly proclaimed the word of God and 3,000 people were saved.

Really, how many people have you converted?

Interesting question.

First of all, I haven't converted anybody. That's not my job. The Bible says that my job is to preach the Gospel and it's the Holy Spirit's job to convert people.

Second, I really don't know how many have come to Christ as a result of my preaching because it isn't a competition and I don't keep score.

Third, how many I've converted is irrelevant.

Our preaching isn't judged by how many people are converted as a result, but whether or not it's faithful to the Gospel.

I would rather win one lost person to Christ through the faithful preaching of the Gospel, than to win 1,000 false converts through preaching a false gospel.

I guess I'm a little confused by your post- does God judge the salvation of others or do you? Because you seem to be making a lot of judgments.

You seem to be confusing judging somebody and proclaiming God's judgement. While it is up to God alone to judge the individual, there are three things that we can judge.

First, we know that all people who die without being born again will go to Hell.

Second, Jesus told us that we can know who is saved and who is not by examining their behavior.

For instance, if they bear bad fruit, then we know that they're not saved. If they keep on living a lifestyle of service to sin, then the Bible declares that they're not saved.

Third, according to passages such as 2 John, if somebody holds heretical doctrines, then they're not saved.

So, while I cannot and do not judge them, I will point out what the Bible says about people who follow in this pattern.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I ask this because she was not it appears, a fundamentalist Christian. Here is something I've copied and pasted from a website, and this is certainly not the only website to say this. There are many that same the same things about Mother Teresa, validating that this is indeed true. But I'll give you this particular website URL too:


- Other notable quotes from "Mother" Teresa (12/4/89, Time magazine, pp. 11,13): (All emphases added):

(a) "The dying, the crippled, the mentally ill, the unwanted, the unloved -- they are Jesus in disguise. ... [through the] poor people I have an opportunity to be 24 hours a day with Jesus." [On another occasion, she again demonstrated her pantheistic religious philosophy: "Every AIDS victim is Jesus in a pitiful disguise; Jesus is in everyone.. ... [AIDS sufferers are] children of God [who] have been created for greater things" (1/13/86, Time).]
(b) "You must make them feel loved and wanted. They are Jesus for me."
(c) "I love all religions. ... If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there." [On another occasion, she again demonstrated her false gospel that 'there are many ways to God': "All is God -- Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, etc., all have access to the same God."]

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I hate quotes taken out of context.
she was probably referring to this:

Matt 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me {something} to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me {something} to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You {something} to drink?
Mat 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, {even} the least {of them,} you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me {nothing} to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;

Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Mat 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'


I would add that the AIDS victim may be an angel, or that derelict down the street is one. What is that scripture about entertaining angels unaware?

Hbr 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I hate quotes taken out of context.
she was probably referring to this:

Matt 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me {something} to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me {something} to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You {something} to drink?
Mat 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, {even} the least {of them,} you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me {nothing} to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;

Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Mat 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'


I would add that the AIDS victim may be an angel, or that derelict down the street is one. What is that scripture about entertaining angels unaware?

Hbr 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Thank you for putting her living the gospel into its proper scriptural perspective.

God bless thee.

:Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

[arunma]

If you are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then how on Earth is your salvation jeopardized by not believing that particular doctrine?

You do realize you have what seems to be a logical contradiction?

I don't see it either. I think the problem here is that you're viewing salvation by grace through faith as some sort of intellectual doctrine. One is not saved by intellectual assent, but by faith in Jesus Christ. That is to say, one must trust his grace and mercy, and not rest on works. The apostate Catholic Church believes in salvation by works. If Mother Teresa held to Catholic doctrine, she would have trusted in her works to save her. This is why we say that we cannot say with certainty that she was saved. Ultimately I don't know what she believed. But I can say that if she did not trust solely in Christ (i.e. if she believed in apostate Catholicism), then she would not be saved.

 

[rusmeister]

The apostate Catholic Church believes in salvation by works. If Mother Teresa held to Catholic doctrine, she would have trusted in her works to save her.

This is not true in the way you seem to understand it. I'm not Catholic, but false Baptist teachings on Catholics are one of the things that make me doubt their understandings of anybody else's teachings. Jack Chick does more damage through incorrect/false explanation than he knows. It works as propaganda with people who never go to the horse's mouth, but when people learn that what you understand is not what they mean they will cease to believe what you say, as I did.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach what you read in the Bible, that we are indeed saved by grace through faith, that it is the gift of God. However, a living faith will produce works. If it does not, it is dead, and pretty meaningless. God is the judge, not we, so we would agree with some of the things you've said. But Catholics and Orthodox do NOT trust in their works to save them - it is the gift of God. The line where you would disagree is more one that your salvation is a process rather than a completed event and it ain't over till the fat lady sings, so we have to continue, every moment, to reject sin and choose Christ. All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we don't save ourselves, but God still expects us to do the best we can to please Him through our works. Both Paul and James are right, not just one or the other.

Arunma, I thought that hanging around TAW you would've picked that up.

 

[WarEagle]

But Catholics and Orthodox do NOT trust in their works to save them

Actually, if you ask most Roman Catholics, they'll say that they're born again by having somebody sprinkle water on their head as a baby. That's trusting in works.

They'll also say that salvation is dependant on one's membership in the Catholic church (ex ecclesia nulla salas). That's a work.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

If you hadn't said this, I would have. Good job. QFT.

I hate quotes taken out of context.
she was probably referring to this:

Matt 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me {something} to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me {something} to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You {something} to drink?
Mat 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, {even} the least {of them,} you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me {nothing} to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;

Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Mat 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'


I would add that the AIDS victim may be an angel, or that derelict down the street is one. What is that scripture about entertaining angels unaware?

Hbr 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

 

[HappyChicken]

This is not true in the way you seem to understand it. I'm not Catholic, but false Baptist teachings on Catholics are one of the things that make me doubt their understandings of anybody else's teachings. Jack Chick does more damage through incorrect/false explanation than he knows. It works as propaganda with people who never go to the horse's mouth, but when people learn that what you understand is not what they mean they will cease to believe what you say, as I did.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach what you read in the Bible, that we are indeed saved by grace through faith, that it is the gift of God. However, a living faith will produce works. If it does not, it is dead, and pretty meaningless. God is the judge, not we, so we would agree with some of the things you've said. But Catholics and Orthodox do NOT trust in their works to save them - it is the gift of God. The line where you would disagree is more one that your salvation is a process rather than a completed event and it ain't over till the fat lady sings, so we have to continue, every moment, to reject sin and choose Christ. All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we don't save ourselves, but God still expects us to do the best we can to please Him through our works. Both Paul and James are right, not just one or the other.

Arunma, I thought that hanging around TAW you would've picked that up.

So, are you saying that you can lose your salvation??? If its not over till the fat lady sings and salvation is a process?? You don't believe that once your saved, your always saved??

 

[arunma]

This is not true in the way you seem to understand it. I'm not Catholic, but false Baptist teachings on Catholics are one of the things that make me doubt their understandings of anybody else's teachings. Jack Chick does more damage through incorrect/false explanation than he knows. It works as propaganda with people who never go to the horse's mouth, but when people learn that what you understand is not what they mean they will cease to believe what you say, as I did.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach what you read in the Bible, that we are indeed saved by grace through faith, that it is the gift of God. However, a living faith will produce works. If it does not, it is dead, and pretty meaningless. God is the judge, not we, so we would agree with some of the things you've said. But Catholics and Orthodox do NOT trust in their works to save them - it is the gift of God. The line where you would disagree is more one that your salvation is a process rather than a completed event and it ain't over till the fat lady sings, so we have to continue, every moment, to reject sin and choose Christ. All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we don't save ourselves, but God still expects us to do the best we can to please Him through our works. Both Paul and James are right, not just one or the other.

Arunma, I thought that hanging around TAW you would've picked that up.

Hi Rusmeister. There are a couple issues I hope to address. First, evangelical Christians would fully agree that both Paul and James are correct; we do not believe that the Bible can contradict itself. Now as to the issue of the process of salvation, Reformed Christians hold to a specific order of salvation which includes several events. Though we believe that justification is a one time act, we believe that sanctification is a lifelong process. This is not some arcane academic debate. If I cease to be justified before God when I sin, then I have no hope of salvation, since I am terribly and habitually sinful. I have spoken to Roman Catholics about this. A Catholic once explained to me that both baptism and confession to a priest cleanse him of his sin, but he loses his holiness when he falls back into sin. If I play a part in my own justification, then it isn't grace.

Finally, I understand that you will likely agree with little of what I've said. After all, to even that Mother Teresa wasn't a true believer in Christ is very offensive. This is why I've tried to be clear in saying that I believe her to be a very good person who did many great works. But ultimately, this isn't about Mother Teresa. I don't know her mind or heart, and since I find it difficult to understand her beliefs from what she said, I don't know if she belonged to Christ or not. What I do know is that no person can be saved by any amount of good works, but only by faith in Jesus Christ. What I am opposing is the doctrine that righteous non-Christians can be saved.

 

[fushiarose]

It's an even sadder day when people don't recognize the Gospel and a woman who believed that her job was to help Hindu's "become better Hindus", rather than presenting the Gospel to them is a great Christian role model.

Here are a few of Theresa's greatest hits:



So clearly, this woman was no Christian and did not preach the Gospel faithfully.

Only Jesus can judge for sure if she was one of His Children. You are not Jesus. Therefore, you can not judge if she was really a Christian or not.
I think she had the idea that she would take care of people's needs and help feed them. She hoped they would come to Christ. If they did not convert to Christianity, she would still feed and help them.
Why do you hate Mother Theresa?
I believe her to be a Christian. You seem like an angry person.

 

[WarEagle]

Only Jesus can judge for sure if she was one of His Children. You are not Jesus. Therefore, you can not judge if she was really a Christian or not.

It would have been pretty silly of Jesus to tell us to beware of wolves if we had no way to tell who the wolves are, wouldn't it?

I think she had the idea that she would take care of people's needs and help feed them. She hoped they would come to Christ. If they did not convert to Christianity, she would still feed and help them.

And how did she expect them to come to Christ if she didn't preach the Gospel to them.

Why do you hate Mother Theresa?

What a silly thing to say.

You seem like an angry person.

No, I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed that there are so many people on a Baptist forum who don't show any discernment and have to fall back on silly ad homs and straw men like "Why do you hate Mother Theresa".

 

[TimRout]

If you are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then how on Earth is your salvation jeopardized by not believing that particular doctrine?

You do realize you have what seems to be a logical contradiction?

I see your point. Now try to understand mine....

If Mother Theresa espoused the RC view that salvation is a product of accumulated grace (through the sacraments) and personal merit (through lifelong obedience), then her faith did not rest in Christ alone to save her, and she would thus be unsaved. If one believes that salvation is by grace, through faith, plus (fill in the blank), then one is NOT a genuine disciple of Christ.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

This is not true in the way you seem to understand it. I'm not Catholic, but false Baptist teachings on Catholics are one of the things that make me doubt their understandings of anybody else's teachings. Jack Chick does more damage through incorrect/false explanation than he knows. It works as propaganda with people who never go to the horse's mouth, but when people learn that what you understand is not what they mean they will cease to believe what you say, as I did.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach what you read in the Bible, that we are indeed saved by grace through faith, that it is the gift of God. However, a living faith will produce works. If it does not, it is dead, and pretty meaningless. God is the judge, not we, so we would agree with some of the things you've said. But Catholics and Orthodox do NOT trust in their works to save them - it is the gift of God. The line where you would disagree is more one that your salvation is a process rather than a completed event and it ain't over till the fat lady sings, so we have to continue, every moment, to reject sin and choose Christ. All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we don't save ourselves, but God still expects us to do the best we can to please Him through our works. Both Paul and James are right, not just one or the other.

Arunma, I thought that hanging around TAW you would've picked that up.

So true!

Actually, if you ask most Roman Catholics, they'll say that they're born again by having somebody sprinkle water on their head as a baby. That's trusting in works.

They'll also say that salvation is dependant on one's membership in the Catholic church (ex ecclesia nulla salas). That's a work.

Also true. Most Catholics don't really understand their own churches' doctrine. But that's true of most Protestants as well.