What are you thoughts on the end of time?

[Bron]

People who sit around waiting for the rapture or whatever seem to forget to live.

That's what concerns me about too much focus on rewards or punishment in the hereafter as well - the time to live is now.

 

[underheaven]

But even pagans, can, and do love one another.The point is to love and proclaim
Jesus Christ as our God and Saviour,without hesitation,even while the doubting clouds form around us.

 

[hop]

"There will come a time when there are no human beings remaining to remember that anyone ever existed, or that our species ever did anything. There will be no one left to remember Aristotle or Cleopatra, let alone you. Everything that we did and built and wrote and thought and discovered will be forgotten and all of this will have been for nothing. Maybe that time is coming soon and maybe it's millions of years away, but even if we survive the collapse of our sun, we will not survive the collapse of the universe. There was time before organisms experienced consciousness and there will be time after. If the inevitability of human oblivion worries, I encourage you to ignore it. God knows that's what everybody else does."

I don't know if Jesus will return or not, but regardless, the above is still true. I'm not too worried about the end of time. People who sit around waiting for the rapture or whatever seem to forget to live.

I don't worry about a few things. One of them is nonsense.

I know the One I believe.

 

[underheaven]

I see your concern is my (and others') lack of apparent concern, but what I was saying is that while I am indeed skeptical that 'this is the end', if we keep doing what Jesus told us, namely, loving others etc, we will not run into trouble in the 'end times' whenever they come, which equates to 'being ready' for this 'thief in the night'. That is my humble take on it, it's very simple, but I don't see the harm in it.
I get the feeling we are talking at cross purposes, but I understand you are coming from a position of concern, which is commendable. I am just clarifying my statements here.

I really think this constant obsession with the 'end' is an american thing
and has agreat deal to do with the hypocrisy of the american values
especially of the rich ,and the extemes of left and right which are
greater than in Europe especially France.
France is a conservative country with a small 'c',based broadly on
on basic Catholic values.The overall tenor is that of respect ,and that all
are valuable .while being nominally secular in it's political life ,it is still
broadly Catholic ,and many more are believers,than one might think.
There are no shouting evangelicals,but normal television on sunday gives
4 hours of religious programmes ,the last 2 I/2 hours being Christian.
ie. 1/2hr orthodox ,1/2hr protestant,and 1 1/2 hrs Catholic.
No haranging ,fear making, but wise making, very beautiful.
They call it the 'Jour du Signeur'.
So while people see changes which are worrying,in the society,and in the job /finance
situation,there is a calmer approach overall,and the left and right work to keep extremes at bay .
People whether they are religious or not live broadly respectful to others, ,and extremes
of wealth ,and the hypocrisy that goes with it is
frowned upon .There are rich and poor,but not on the scale of the States .
If you are waiting for the end, instead of living as happily and generously towards others as you can,you are not living as Christ ordained you to. I think that those who engender fear, as opposed to watchfulness ,are acting a great sin,and should be avoided.
Yes there are very difficult times ahead for a while,as the West readjusts to
the reality, of a less indulgent society.
Those who are very rich and do not Know that they will not get life eternal unless they use it
for a greater good are the biggest of fools,especially if they say they are Christian. I take my certainty of that not from the bible alone.

I have just noticed that this is for liberal Christians,and I don't think I am.?

 

[XtianAgain]

I really think this constant obsession with the 'end' is an american thing
and has agreat deal to do with the hypocrisy of the american values
especially of the rich ,and the extemes of left and right which are
greater than in Europe especially France.
France is a conservative country with a small 'c',based broadly on
on basic Catholic values.The overall tenor is that of respect ,and that all
are valuable .while being nominally secular in it's political life ,it is still
broadly Catholic ,and many more are believers,than one might think.
There are no shouting evangelicals,but normal television on sunday gives
4 hours of religious programmes ,the last 2 I/2 hours being Christian.
ie. 1/2hr orthodox ,1/2hr protestant,and 1 1/2 hrs Catholic.
No haranging ,fear making, but wise making, very beautiful.
They call it the 'Jour du Signeur'.
So while people see changes which are worrying,in the society,and in the job /finance
situation,there is a calmer approach overall,and the left and right work to keep extremes at bay .
People whether they are religious or not live broadly respectful to others, ,and extremes
of wealth ,and the hypocrisy that goes with it is
frowned upon .There are rich and poor,but not on the scale of the States .
If you are waiting for the end, instead of living as happily and generously towards others as you can,you are not living as Christ ordained you to. I think that those who engender fear, as opposed to watchfulness ,are acting a great sin,and should be avoided.
Yes there are very difficult times ahead for a while,as the West readjusts to
the reality, of a less indulgent society.
Those who are very rich and do not Know that they will not get life eternal unless they use it
for a greater good are the biggest of fools,especially if they say they are Christian. I take my certainty of that not from the bible alone.

I have just noticed that this is for liberal Christians,and I don't think I am.?

Interesting post! Oh, and it doesn't matter if you're totally Liberal per se. As long as you're respectful or we're sharing beliefs its fine.

 

[rayodeluz]

I really think this constant obsession with the 'end' is an american thing
and has agreat deal to do with the hypocrisy of the american values
especially of the rich ,and the extemes of left and right which are
greater than in Europe especially France.
France is a conservative country with a small 'c',based broadly on
on basic Catholic values.The overall tenor is that of respect ,and that all
are valuable .while being nominally secular in it's political life ,it is still
broadly Catholic ,and many more are believers,than one might think.
There are no shouting evangelicals,but normal television on sunday gives
4 hours of religious programmes ,the last 2 I/2 hours being Christian.
ie. 1/2hr orthodox ,1/2hr protestant,and 1 1/2 hrs Catholic.
No haranging ,fear making, but wise making, very beautiful.
They call it the 'Jour du Signeur'.
So while people see changes which are worrying,in the society,and in the job /finance
situation,there is a calmer approach overall,and the left and right work to keep extremes at bay .
People whether they are religious or not live broadly respectful to others, ,and extremes
of wealth ,and the hypocrisy that goes with it is
frowned upon .There are rich and poor,but not on the scale of the States .
If you are waiting for the end, instead of living as happily and generously towards others as you can,you are not living as Christ ordained you to. I think that those who engender fear, as opposed to watchfulness ,are acting a great sin,and should be avoided.
Yes there are very difficult times ahead for a while,as the West readjusts to
the reality, of a less indulgent society.
Those who are very rich and do not Know that they will not get life eternal unless they use it
for a greater good are the biggest of fools,especially if they say they are Christian. I take my certainty of that not from the bible alone.

I have just noticed that this is for liberal Christians,and I don't think I am.?

I also agree that is an interesting post, and about the part of hypocrisy of American values. I pretty much considered France to be somewhat liberal and more secular, but I see I'm wrong.

As far as this being for liberal Christians, I guess that depends on what your definition of that is. I'm pretty much conservative as far as my theology goes, but I'm very liberal politically. Others here are the reverse. All are welcome as long as they're respectful about others' beliefs.

 

[ByronArn]

I'm pretty much conservative as far as my theology goes, but I'm very liberal politically[/B].

Really? I have been describing myself in the same way for quite a while now. I use to call myself a liberal Christian but got tired of being lumped in with the likes of John Shelby Spong as a denier of the virgin birth, Resurrection, etc.

For me, good theology is defined by the Nicene Creed, and everything else is optional beliefs. And since the Nicene Creed is silent on most social issues (gay rights, racism, Separation of Church & State, etc), I feel there is nothing wrong with me taking the liberal view on these things...

As to the original topic, I am an amillenialist. I believe we are in the Millenium now, and that Christ rules over the world in this age through His church.

 

[Yitzchak]

What I hear taught a lot is that while no one knows the exact time , as in setting a date , but we do know that we live in the last days and if his return was soon back in the first century , then it is even sooner now.

 

[Nanopants]

I don't believe that prophecy was given to us as a riddle to figure out. I'm pretty sure it's alot more like a way we can know that something was ordained to happen, when it happens; sort of like seeing the thumbprint of God on a situation as it is unfolding.

 

[underheaven]

I agree, there is much to be done, so many needy and oppressed people to be helped. And many of the self-appointed prophets like Camping have made very wrong claims which put people off listening to the gospel.

One issue to keep in mind though is that Jesus, although sent by God to the whole world, he was born in Israel. God selected Israel for him to be born in. King Herod was alarmed that there was one born King of the Jews. Jesus still is a Jew and will be the King of the Jews. So to keep an eye on what is going on with Jesus's countrymen the Jews and Israel can be of significance. While Jesus is the saviour of all men, he was born and lived and died in Israel.

Indeed in the past 70 years there has been more happening with the Jews and Israel than for many centuries.

100 years ago there was no nation of Israel. Now it is one of the world's smallest but most prosperous. Not a perfect nation by any means but a nation once again.

Jesus needs somewhere to return to, a location.

The bible e.g Zechariah says that would be Jerusalem in Israel. 70 years ago that would have made no sense. Now it does.

Therefore we do not know the day or the hour, but it seems more feasible now.

Thankyou for your point about Zachariah, as my expertise is not in the bible
although know the main stories.
Would you be therefore saying that He would be a Jew ?
Israel has christians of several colours and of course moslems ,
as well as other minorities.

 

[underheaven]

I also agree that is an interesting post, and about the part of hypocrisy of American values. I pretty much considered France to be somewhat liberal and more secular, but I see I'm wrong.

As far as this being for liberal Christians, I guess that depends on what your definition of that is. I'm pretty much conservative as far as my theology goes, but I'm very liberal politically. Others here are the reverse. All are welcome as long as they're respectful about others' beliefs.

Yes I am happy to say that while France is secular,with a strict seperation
of church and state,as people often take things for granted,like their roots,
until they are threatened by an evil greater than being 'religious',
there is no desire to rid France of any more religion,orto be more secular.
Enough is enough I am hearing even from atheists.
France is ruledby the signs [sidereal ]of virgo ,mercury,and balance,venus].
Go too far in one direction,and the balance will come in the next election or in
the streets or in numbers in churches.
But this is a thread about the Second coming of Christ.One of the things that concerns
me is that while Christ above all councelled us to love
our Creator and our neighbour as being the most important virtues,
He has given us the internet[an unfolding as a result of following His
word] we will be expected to be rigourously honest with ourselves
and to seek knowledge.I think personally we have been partly saved,
or we would not have come so far in scienceetc ,but individuals must be
also seeking rational truths as well as those of belief.
A truly advanced soul has a love and trust in God ,but is not afraid to study God's universe.
Of course if they are not born again of the Holy
Spirit they will make dangerous heresies,which can lead souls astray.
To know the difference can be difficult,and takes a long and rigourous
path,often a lonely one .As for Songe ,while I may have some reservations about the
'assumption' and while sure that Christ is present
at the Eucharist, I do not believe that the bread is transformed into His flesh .
However I have absolutely NO Doubt about His Resurrection,none at all. Without
this central 'knowing' you cannot be a Christian .

 

[Sonny1954]

I don't look for Christ's return any time soon. Personally, I'm not sure I believe in a general 2nd coming anymore. I do believe that each of us experiences our own 2nd coming of Christ when our soul faces Him at our death.

In any event, Jesus says that only the Father knows the day and the hour.

 

[rayodeluz]

Really? I have been describing myself in the same way for quite a while now. I use to call myself a liberal Christian but got tired of being lumped in with the likes of John Shelby Spong as a denier of the virgin birth, Resurrection, etc.

Guess we need to come up with some name that identifies us as conservative in Christian theology, and liberal politically and socially. I also don't want to lumped with the type of Christian conservatives who views their way as the only way. I have my beliefs, but also respect how others may interpret things differently

 

[lismore]

Thankyou for your point about Zachariah, as my expertise is not in the bible
although know the main stories.
Would you be therefore saying that He would be a Jew ?
Israel has christians of several colours and of course moslems ,
as well as other minorities.

Hello Yes. I think Jesus was a Jew and would be when he returns. Therefore Israel becoming a nation again, which it wasn't since the time of Jesus, is of significance. The bible says Jesus is coming back to Jerusalem and will be greeted when he returns by the Jews. This would not have made sense until last century. So I think the signs point to the date being on the horizon.

 

[stacymay]

I agree that Christ is probably not tying his shoes at the moment. I guess my philosophy on the End Times is that it has to happen sometime because the earth can't handle our presence in its present state much longer. Not only is overpopulation threatening the very resources God has placed in our care, but human nature is getting more and more terrifying with each generation. The lull my parents describe might be slightly sugarcoated ("We used to be able to hitch-hike all across the country without a worry in the world!") but today kids have concerns they don't deserve and past generations weren't constantly facing, such as school shootings, gangs, overcrowded and underfunded schools, and countless remorseless psychopaths creeping into their lives from every angle. I'm a ray of sunshine, ain't I?

Well, my point is that the New Earth will be a welcome gift from the man above and personally I see lots of time for effort on humanity's part. God gives chances, and He's giving us a chance right now. Whether the end comes as soon as I'm done typing this or in 200 years, I strongly believe that we should be preaching daily faith instead of fear and empty hourglasses. The best way to get someone prepared for the End Times may, in fact, involve avoiding the subject altogether. My humble and open-for-exceptions opinion.

I know I would never sit my kid down and say they won't live see their tenth birthday but hooray Jesus is coming. Even the most right-raised child would probably not appreciate that lingering thought, and I know I'm not going to work hard in college or a career if there's not going to be a world in which to graduate or work. There's a difference between being prepared and doing nothing but preparing; I would rather go forward for my future and strive to be close to God while my heart beats than constantly anticipate a rapture or apocalypse. In my opinion, it's not much different than sitting around waiting for death instead of making the most of life and its purposeful mysteries.