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What are you going to do, when the only thing you are afraid of is evolving in to Hell?

I will know I am in Hell...

  • ...when I desire to do good, but don't

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...when I desire to keep adapting evil, but don't know what for

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...when I no longer want to adapt, but still feel I have to

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...when I feel that others expect me to adapt, for no reason

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So there is very little about this, in the Bible: evolving in to Hell - but there are scriptures which point in its direction. Mark 9:43 "if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is better to enter into life lame or maimed, than to be cast into Hell". The point being that your body can have a life of its own, for sin or for good - and if sin, then so much so that your fear of Hell can bring it to life with a desire to be destroyed. This whole animating question then, is of great significance to Evolution, since it is what we are becoming that is believed to be the difference.

The difference, even so, becoming something better, but for the wrong reasons, can bring your body to life with a life of its own, for destruction. Just like a woman gets a desire for a man, or fire gets a desire to blaze (proverbs), these things can create destruction, when there is no God to guide it beyond its current state. The opposite is true, if we believe, but only if we believe. It is no good saying, I will evolve myself and trust God to take up some of the slack - when He does not have pride of place, there is no reason for Him to save anything. This is the extreme we see at the cross, where Christ cuts everything off for the sake of the glory to come.

Taking chances with your eternity, is something that the Bible never encourages us to do: we are bound to make something our god, whether we like it or not - enough rope may hang a man, but it may even put the idea of hanging in a man's head, whether he thinks it is a good thing or not. The truth is, unless we cut off the Evolution that is not helping, it will drag us into Hell, where we will suffer, even greatly evolved, for all of eternity. If we suffer for all of eternity, there will be no reason to come back and try again, we will have been cut off for good. Better to be humble and accept the standard Christ gave as our example.

I'm not saying a hand that becomes a better hand, is not a good thing: I'm saying a hand that becomes a better hand at sinning, is not a good thing, is a bad thing. We have to be wary of this, lest it destroy us. That said, it can be difficult to be mindful of where our adaptations are taking us - for this reason God sends the Holy Spirit: to remind us of Jesus and everything that He said to do, to ensure our adapting was not for nothing. In doing this, trusting the Spirit and trusting the works He inspires us to do, we ensure that our adaptations are more and more glorifying to God. If God is glorified, He is greatly pleased.

In all this, we remember what Jesus said "come to me all you who are weary and carry heavy burdens for I will give you rest" - it is not up to us to be more evolved than the next guy, but to rest in Jesus and trust that in time, we will evolve together. If we evolve together, surely our name will be great and if our name is great, then God's will be the greater!

EDIT: It's just a fact: the more responsible you think you were, the more you needed to repent.
 
Last edited:

Gottservant

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Please can you explain how one cuts off part of oneself?

For example, if your believing you came from an ape, distracts from your ability to function as a man, you would progressively, need to cut back on that belief (the belief that you came from an ape).

More plainly, if you believe that lusting is good and you keep feeling guilty that you do it so much, you would progressively, need to cut back on that behaviour.

More severely, if you believe you need to use your fists violently and you keep hitting people, you need momentously to cut your fist off (before you hurt someone).

These things all have their basis in what you think is acceptable, and their substance in what you think is maintainable - unless you stop calling it acceptable and maintainable it will do harm, to you or another: leaving you with only one alternative (amputation).
 
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Gottservant

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Evolution is a fact of biological science.
It is not religion.
It is not theology.
It is not morality.
It is not society.
It is not philosophy.
It is biology, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm just telling you what Jesus told me.

It's not meant to drag you back to the past; it's meant to clarify your future.

Without clarifying why you believe what you believe, what you believe can't be (believed).
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I'm just telling you what Jesus told me.

It's not meant to drag you back to the past; it's meant to clarify your future.

Without clarifying why you believe what you believe, what you believe can't be (believed).

You're doing nothing of the sort. What you're trying to do is to connect two completely different things, evolution and redemption through Christ, to create something nonsensical.

No-one believes in evolution because, and I have stated this repeatedly, evolution is a fact of biology, not a philosophy, theology, religion or source of morality. It's just biology. How is that not hard to understand?
 
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Gottservant

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You're doing nothing of the sort. What you're trying to do is to connect two completely different things, evolution and redemption through Christ, to create something nonsensical.

No-one believes in evolution because, and I have stated this repeatedly, evolution is a fact of biology, not a philosophy, theology, religion or source of morality. It's just biology. How is that not hard to understand?

And how is it you do not understand, that as simply childish as it is for you to insist that I believe your platitudes for (or rather in the place of) established wisdom - it is made no easier for the fact that you have no foundation ("everyone starts 'here'"), feeling (most people feel 'this') or forecasting (one day people will be 'thus')?

I want a theory that allows me to feel awe and inspiration, that redresses my failings but does not abandon me to them - is that too much to ask? Sincerely?

These are the basic components of anything that has faith; Jesus was replete with words that could be memorized and retained for times of difficulty - all of which He did for love. There is no conceit in Jesus, that what He did not like, He did something about; and what needed welcome in Jesus, He welcomed publically.

Maybe my mistake has been to put upon Evolution, the yoke of answer, that it could never ultimately live up to being, I don't know - but I know this, I have never failed to hold out the greatest hope, the truest intent, for what it was Evolution could say the mediating factor was, between grateful and fore-expecting the difference to play out, one generation to the next.

If that's not enough, then God help you - I am no more than a representative of His Will, as it is.
 
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Tom 1

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Hi there,

So there is very little about this, in the Bible: evolving in to Hell - but there are scriptures which point in its direction. Mark 9:43 "if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is better to enter into life lame or maimed, than to be cast into Hell". The point being that your body can have a life of its own, for sin or for good - and if sin, then so much so that your fear of Hell can bring it to life with a desire to be destroyed. This whole animating question then, is of great significance to Evolution, since it is what we are becoming that is believed to be the difference.

The difference, even so, becoming something better, but for the wrong reasons, can bring your body to life with a life of its own, for destruction. Just like a woman gets a desire for a man, or fire gets a desire to blaze (proverbs), these things can create destruction, when there is no God to guide it beyond its current state. The opposite is true, if we believe, but only if we believe. It is no good saying, I will evolve myself and trust God to take up some of the slack - when He does not have pride of place, there is no reason for Him to save anything. This is the extreme we see at the cross, where Christ cuts everything off for the sake of the glory to come.

Taking chances with your eternity, is something that the Bible never encourages us to do: we are bound to make something our god, whether we like it or not - enough rope may hang a man, but it may even put the idea of hanging in a man's head, whether he thinks it is a good thing or not. The truth is, unless we cut off the Evolution that is not helping, it will drag us into Hell, where we will suffer, even greatly evolved, for all of eternity. If we suffer for all of eternity, there will be no reason to come back and try again, we will have been cut off for good. Better to be humble and accept the standard Christ gave as our example.

I'm not saying a hand that becomes a better hand, is not a good thing: I'm saying a hand that becomes a better hand at sinning, is not a good thing, is a bad thing. We have to be wary of this, lest it destroy us. That said, it can be difficult to be mindful of where our adaptations are taking us - for this reason God sends the Holy Spirit: to remind us of Jesus and everything that He said to do, to ensure our adapting was not for nothing. In doing this, trusting the Spirit and trusting the works He inspires us to do, we ensure that our adaptations are more and more glorifying to God. If God is glorified, He is greatly pleased.

In all this, we remember what Jesus said "come to me all you who are weary and carry heavy burdens for I will give you rest" - it is not up to us to be more evolved than the next guy, but to rest in Jesus and trust that in time, we will evolve together. If we evolve together, surely our name will be great and if our name is great, then God's will be the greater!

EDIT: It's just a fact: the more responsible you think you were, the more you needed to repent.

Are you talking about determinism? Is there something about ToE that you think is a determining factor in how you behave, but only to the extent that you believe it to be accurate, or something like that?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I want a theory that allows me to feel awe and inspiration, that redresses my failings but does not abandon me to them - is that too much to ask? Sincerely?
You might find that in the theory of evolution if you could understand it, but then again, you might not. Nature itself cares naught for your wants.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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<snip>
Maybe my mistake has been to put upon Evolution, the yoke of answer, that it could never ultimately live up to being, I don't know<snip>

Your mistake, and it's a massive mistake, is you confusing evolution, a facet of biological science, with religion. They are not the same thing at all, and the sooner you understand this, the sooner all your other mistakes will clear up.
 
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Ophiolite

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For example, if your believing you came from an ape, distracts from your ability to function as a man, you would progressively, need to cut back on that belief (the belief that you came from an ape).

More plainly, if you believe that lusting is good and you keep feeling guilty that you do it so much, you would progressively, need to cut back on that behaviour.

More severely, if you believe you need to use your fists violently and you keep hitting people, you need momentously to cut your fist off (before you hurt someone).

These things all have their basis in what you think is acceptable, and their substance in what you think is maintainable - unless you stop calling it acceptable and maintainable it will do harm, to you or another: leaving you with only one alternative (amputation).
Is there any chance you could cut back on posting?
 
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VirOptimus

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I've been to Congo
I lived in Rome
Spent my lifetime
To waste my brain
Now it's the same time running
Out for you and me
That pushes, pulls, and drags me, baby
Back to thee
With all my guts and bollocks
I don't regret fearing and burning
Sometimes I wonder
I can't get enough
You're cute and stupid
I want it fast
I want to go to hell
I want to flee
To free my brain
I never do
Something right
Leaving the body
Taking mind
In total control
Into the night
I saw the light
Stitched my wounds
I picked the orchids
In Nicaragua's jungle
I'll miss your gams
So wet and shiny
You're my Vietnam child
Kiss my scars away
 
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