what are you doing to help?

[Byfaithalone1]

It seems to me that everything you say cancels itself out. It's like grabbing at the air.

As I mentioned in the other thread, it seems that our discussion has taken a darker tone. I'll let a little time pass and then we can try again.

If I don't "see" you until then, I hope that you and yours have a very merry Christmas.

God bless,
BFA

 

[k4c]

As I mentioned in the other thread, it seems that our discussion has taken a darker tone. I'll let a little time pass and then we can try again.

If I don't "see" you until then, I hope that you and yours have a very merry Christmas.

God bless,
BFA

It's not a dark tone, I'm just stating the facts. You present nothing that I can grab a hold of.

Faith is not something without substance or evidence nor is love without a standard.

Christanity is not just floating in space without direction or meaning. Christanity has pupose and meaning and looks like something that God created and set the standard for.

 

[Joe67]

No one can serve two masters.

Heb 12:18-21
18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

20(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake. KJV

Heb 12:22-24
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. KJV

At which mountain do we worship God in Jesus Christ?

Mt. Sinai is good, holy and just.

Mt. Zion above is better; our names are written there. The blood of Jesus is speaking to us from above. Let us not refuse him who is speaking.

Joe

 

[StormyOne]

saying humans cant keep the law is pretty ridiculous in itself.. have you read the 10 commmandments.. and the levitical laws.. how hard is it to not sleep with animals/parents.. not eat blood/unclean foods.. and not lie cheat or steal.. I mean really the laws he set up were soo easy and yet people make such a big fuss about obiding by them.. I just don't get it

then I guess my friend you don't get it... that's a you problem, not a we problem... it is also interesting that you introduce extremes that we were not discussing... you say God set these laws up yet you have no proof of such... perhaps we should start there...

 

[StormyOne]

How do children learn to love their parents? Through relationship. Now let's go one step further because this is the most important step. What do they learn through their relationship? They learn what makes their parent happy so they can express their love for them.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Do you have kids? I do, and trust me parents don't walk around the house loudly proclaiming "If you love me keep my commandments!!!" Likewise, children cannot make their parents happy... parents can choose to be happy or unhappy regardless of what the children do... again you are trapped in performance based relationship mentality which does not work...

 

[Avonia]

Christanity is not just floating in space without direction or meaning. Christanity has pupose and meaning and looks like something that God created and set the standard for.

BFA, it's a little funny that YOU are the one being called the relativist. Not sure where that puts me.

 

[StormyOne]

BFA, it's a little funny that YOU are the one being called the relativist. Not sure where that puts me.

lol.... I think I am in your boar Avonia.... and consider it a privilege...

 

[k4c]

Do you have kids? I do, and trust me parents don't walk around the house loudly proclaiming "If you love me keep my commandments!!!" Likewise, children cannot make their parents happy... parents can choose to be happy or unhappy regardless of what the children do... again you are trapped in performance based relationship mentality which does not work...

There is a fine line between perfomance and obedience.

The difference is performance is an act done to be accepted or approved whereas obedience is a symtom of being saved.

I don't do good to be saved, but rather, I do good because I am saved.

The good I do is because of a force working in me that is outside of my control. I work in a group home for troubled boys age 15 to 17. I don't know how many times I wanted to quit but there is something within me that keeps me going even in the face of abuse and unthankfullness.

I would compare salvation with an award you get for being humble and the minute you think you've earned it they take it away.

 

[StormyOne]

There is a fine line between perfomance and obedience.

The difference is performance is an act done to be accepted or approved whereas obedience is a symtom of being saved.

I don't do good to be saved, but rather, I do good because I am saved.

The good I do is because of a force working in me that is outside of my control. I work in a group home for troubled boys age 15 to 17. I don't know how many times I wanted to quit but there is something within me that keeps me going even in the face of abuse and unthankfullness.

I would compare salvation with an award you get for being humble and the minute you think you've earned it they take it away.

interesting explanation.... obedience does not make a relationship.... however in a relationship there will be obedience.....

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

How are you helping non SDA's and Messianic Jews to understand that the 4th commandment is super important.. I guess what I'm looking for here is effective witnessing techniques

Strive to live my life according to God's Law to be an example to others. Talk about it to those who want to hear about it. You can't "convert" others to keeping the Sabbath, because the Sabbath, certainly its correct use is more than carnal mind can accept. The Holy Spirit has to open a person's mind to that.

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7

 

[k4c]

interesting explanation.... obedience does not make a relationship.... however in a relationship there will be obedience.....

One of the things we have to keep in mind, in our relationship with God, is that, though it's similar to our relationship with our friends and family, it's different in that God is Spirit and desires to be worshiped.

Revelation 14:7 saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.''

John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''

True and acceptable worship is founded on obedience to God.

Matthew 15:9 Their worship is worthless, for they teach their man-made laws instead of those from God.

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

I think this where many of our disputes come because, though God is our father and He loves us very much, He is still God. There is a fine balance to keep in how we love God yet worship Him as God. This is not like any other relstionship in the world.

When we discuss God some are discussing Him from a love perspective while others may be discussing Him from a worship perspective. Both of which should be based on love but one is bathed in reverance and awe.

It's important that we mingle the two in a healthy balance knowing that God is holy and desires His people to be holy.

1 Peter 1:13-16 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.''

 

[StormyOne]

One of the things we have to keep in mind, in our relationship with God, is that, though it's similar to our relationship with our friends and family, it's different in that God is Spirit and desires to be worshiped.

Revelation 14:7 saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.''

John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''

True and acceptable worship is founded on obedience to God.

Matthew 15:9 Their worship is worthless, for they teach their man-made laws instead of those from God.

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

I think this where many of our disputes come because, though God is our father and He loves us very much, He is still God. There is a fine balance to keep in how we love God yet worship Him as God. This is not like any other relstionship in the world.

When we discuss God some are discussing Him from a love perspective while others may be discussing Him from a worship perspective. Both of which should be based on love but one is bathed in reverance and awe.

It's important that we mingle the two in a healthy balance knowing that God is holy and desires His people to be holy.

1 Peter 1:13-16 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.''

We are not spirits, so to worship him in spirit is a misnomer.... I also don't think that He has this pressing desire to be "worshiped." He knows what he is, and I suspect that he does not have an ego that requires his creation to constantly "worship" him..... Likewise since God is holy, and can make anything he wants "holy" if he says my creation is holy, then its a done deal.....

While you continue to post texts that you believe support your position, understand that what you are posting are what people believe and understood about God centuries ago. Since God did not write the bible nor dictate it, please resist the urge to tell me that the bible is the infallible word of God.... You may believe it is, and I accept that, however that is not my belief....

 

[k4c]

We are not spirits, so to worship him in spirit is a misnomer.... I also don't think that has this pressing desire to be "worshiped." He knows what he is, and I suspect that he does not have an ego that requires his creation to constantly "worship" him..... Likewise since God is holy, and can make anything he wants "holy" if he says my creation is holy, then its a done deal.....

While you continue to post texts that you believe support your position, understand that what you are posting are what people believe and understood about God centuries ago. Since God did not write the bible nor dictate it, please resist the urge to tell me that the bible is the infallible word of God.... You may believe it is, and I accept that, however that is not my belief....

When God calls us to worship Him in spirit and in truth what He is saying is that He wants us to worship Him inwardly according to truth, in other words, obedience from the heart, not just outward ritualism.

Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

In the old covenant the Law of God, written in stone, governed the outward actions of man, under the new covenant the Law, written on the heart, governs the thoughts of man resulting in outward changes.

Matthew 23:26 "Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

When studying the Bible you will find flaws and the short comings of sinful man within it's translations but the Bible itself as a whole with all it's principles and precepts are inspired by God for our instruction of which God will hold us accoutable to.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

By the way, we were created to worship and love God. It's the whole purpose of man's existance.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Here is my final conclusion: fear God and obey his commandments, for this is the entire duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA, it's a little funny that YOU are the one being called the relativist. Not sure where that puts me.

I appreciate the irony! Thanks for the chuckle!

Perhaps I have taken a step or two outside of the the four walls I grew up in??

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

When God calls us to worship Him in spirit and in truth what He is saying is that He wants us to worship Him inwardly according to truth, in other words, obedience from the heart, not just outward ritualism.

Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

In the old covenant the Law of God, written in stone, governed the outward actions of man, under the new covenant the Law, written on the heart, governs the thoughts of man resulting in outward changes.

Matthew 23:26 "Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

When studying the Bible you will find flaws and the short comings of sinful man within it's translations but the Bible itself as a whole with all it's principles and precepts are inspired by God for our instruction of which God will hold us accoutable to.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

By the way, we were created to worship and love God. It's the whole purpose of man's existance.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Here is my final conclusion: fear God and obey his commandments, for this is the entire duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil.

you have posted theological double talk, complete with texts.... thanks for sharing... I clearly do not believe that our whole purpose for being created was to worship God... if that were the case He would not have created us with a brain, instead he would have hardwired it into us like the animals....

 

[k4c]

you have posted theological double talk, complete with texts.... thanks for sharing... I clearly do not believe that our whole purpose for being created was to worship God... if that were the case He would not have created us with a brain, instead he would have hardwired it into us like the animals....

This what I actually said, "By the way, we were created to worship and love God. It's the whole purpose of man's existance".

To love and worship God does not make us like the animals. You should rethink your reply in light of the entire Bible.

 

[StormyOne]

This what I actually said, "By the way, we were created to worship and love God. It's the whole purpose of man's existance".

To love and worship God does not make us like the animals. You should rethink your reply in light of the entire Bible.

That is not what I said.... I said, IF God had wanted us to solely worship him, he would have hardwired us for doing just that..... The entire bible gives us the thoughts of men about God during their time (in theory)..... One author says this:

The Bible becomes not a literal road map to reality but a historic narrative of the journey our religious forebears made in the eternal human quest to understand life, the world, themselves, and God.

As such my answer remains as it is.... likewise my belief that humans are not created primarily to worship God....

 

[k4c]

That is not what I said.... I said, IF God had wanted us to solely worship him, he would have hardwired us for doing just that..... The entire bible gives us the thoughts of men about God during their time (in theory)..... One author says this: As such my answer remains as it is.... likewise my belief that humans are not created primarily to worship God....

The Bible calls itself the Scriptures or writings. Within the Scriptures we find the words of God, the words of good people and evil people, good angels and bad angels. But even in all this the Bible contains the inspired words of God able to make one wise for salvation and instruct him in the ways of righteousness.

The Bible calls us to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. There is not much room here to say loving God is not a number one goal for man.

The Bible tells us that we are to worship God and God only. This too does not leave much room for man's opinion.

There is such blessing for man when man freely and willfully loves and worships God because man was created for God.

 

[StormyOne]

The Bible calls itself the Scriptures or writings. Within the Scriptures we find the words of God, the words of good people and evil people, good angels and bad angels. But even in all this the Bible contains the inspired words of God able to make one wise for salvation and instruct him in the ways of righteousness.

The Bible calls us to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. There is not much room here to say loving God is not a number one goal for man.

The Bible tells us that we are to worship God and God only. This too does not leave much room for man's opinion.

There is such blessing for man when man freely and willfully loves and worships God because man was created for God.

The bible calls itself nothing... people whose writings were compiled to make the bible wrote those things... The bible has no voice except the one that we give it via our interpretation.... As such, I hear what you are saying K4c, I just don't agree with your interpretation...

 

[k4c]

The bible calls itself nothing... people whose writings were compiled to make the bible wrote those things... The bible has no voice except the one that we give it via our interpretation.... As such, I hear what you are saying K4c, I just don't agree with your interpretation...

Okay...God still loves both of us.