How are you helping non SDA's and Messianic Jews to understand that the 4th commandment is super important.. I guess what I'm looking for here is effective witnessing techniques
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
what are you doing to help?
- Thread starter help_the_lord
- Start date
Super important based on what? Let me ask another way, what is the most important, Jesus, or the sabbath?
Upvote
0
k4c
Well-Known Member
Miracles, signs and wonders will not move people to believe or change. Only a love for truth is the only way people will see the importance of God's commandments.
Luke 16:30-31 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' "But he said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' ''
If they are not convinced by the written word found in Moses and the prophets and have a love for truth found in the word of God then nothing will convince them, even if someone were raised from the dead.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Study your word and link all the verses that support what you believe. Test evenything you believe to make sure it's solid without any loop holes or what if's and then present what the Lord has given you. If you leave people without a leg to stand on, regarding what they have been believing, then their love for truth will move them to change. Sometimes this takes time because some people are slow to change so we need to allow time for them to test and the Spirit to convict. Many times we don't see the fruit of our labor but someone else will.
1 Corinthians 3:6-8 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
Upvote
0
k4c
Well-Known Member
I believe the question, "What's more important, Jesus or the Sabbath" is an illusion that sounds good but it's a question that should not be asked. The reason for this is because having Jesus without obedience to the truth is just like not having Jesus.
Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
1 John 2:3-4 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, "I know Him,'' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Having Jesus and loving Him is the reason for keeping all the commandments, you can't have one without the other.
John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
John 15:6-7 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you."
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.''
Jesus is the embodied truth of God, the word made flesh. You can't have one without the other.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Not quite as I see it... there will be those who live their lives and in the end will ask, Lord when did we visit you, or when did we feed you and the response is if you have done it to the least of these you did it to me.... God is concerned about relationship, not a law that some believe they can "keep." So yes the question can be and should be asked.... in every case the directive is simple, " If you LOVE me, keep my commandments." Love i.e. relationship always, always, always proceeds obedience.....
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
One might wonder why the author of Hebrews felt need to raise the distinction when he wrote that Jesus is the reality and the law is the shadow that points to the reality. Perhaps there is value in understanding the difference between the reality and the shadow. Perhaps it is unwise to view Jesus and the law as though they are one and the same.
If Jesus was correct when He asserted that there is only One who is good, then we are in a real pickle. Either we can have one without the other, or it is impossible to draw near to Jesus (i.e. to "have Him" as you have suggested).
BFA
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
Important for what?
- Salvation?
- Heaven?
- Receiving the seal of God?
- Avoiding the mark of the beast?
Don't MJs already emphasize the importance of the law?
BFA
Upvote
0
k4c
Well-Known Member
I believe the testimony of Jesus is where we find how to live the life. So it's always, always, always, and I'll raise you one, always the Law and the testimony.
Jesus' life in how He lived and loved others in light of the Law is the testimony we should all have.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The Law and the testimony teaches us what Godly love looks like.
Upvote
0
What you are suggesting is regressive and legalistic.... the law and testimony does no such thing... how do children learn to love their parents? Through the laws that their parents have for living in the home, I think not.... Children learn to love their parents via a relationship... The letters to the Galatians makes a crucial point, humans cannot keep the law... I understand where you are coming from, I don't share your view...
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
I agree. If my kid's love was based on my rules, my children would hate me!
Luckily, I have a very healthy relationship with my kids outside of my rules.However, some folks do find it comforting to think that they can earn God's love with their good behavior.
BFA
Upvote
0
saying humans cant keep the law is pretty ridiculous in itself.. have you read the 10 commmandments.. and the levitical laws.. how hard is it to not sleep with animals/parents.. not eat blood/unclean foods.. and not lie cheat or steal.. I mean really the laws he set up were soo easy and yet people make such a big fuss about obiding by them.. I just don't get it
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
As we read and internalize the track record of God's chosen people, we begin to realize how ridiculous it is to claim that humans keep the law.
For many people, it seems pretty hard to avoid sleeping with a person who is not one's spouse. Perhaps this is why Paul admitted that he did the things he did not want to do. Such admissions are honest and real. Claims to law keeping are artificial. There is no truth in the man who claims to be without sin.
The subject of food seems to create all sorts of obsessions. There are the overly health conscious who are afraid of food because it might kill them. There are the anorexics who are afraid of food because it might ruin their body image. There are the over-eaters whose food consumption leads to unhealthy weight gain. I'd say there are many, many people who struggle with eating a healthy diet.
Anyone who works in the corporate world will recognize that problems in these areas are widespread.
And yet every human fails to keep them. If we are watching the statistics, that's a 100% track record of failure. What does that tell us? It tells me that I need a Savior. I hope that it tells you the same thing.
BFA
Upvote
0
k4c
Well-Known Member
How do children learn to love their parents? Through relationship. Now let's go one step further because this is the most important step. What do they learn through their relationship? They learn what makes their parent happy so they can express their love for them.
John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
What would I communicate to my children if my love for them was contingent upon their obedience to my rules?
BFA
Upvote
0
k4c
Well-Known Member
Our love for God is contingent on how we act towards Him but God's love for us is not.
John 14:23-24 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
Upvote
0
Xenon
Regular Member
John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
k4c didn't say that God loves us on condition that we obey Him. There are simply proper ways to love both our parents and God. Discipline guides us to that healthy relationship. God loves us whether we sin against Him or not, but as His child, I want to love Him back properly. That means walking by faith in His word: doing what He says in His spirit because He tells us to.
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
Can you help me unpack that?
- If my love for God is contingent on how I act toward Him, then it seems to me that the primary thing that God wants is my good behavior.
- Is God more interested in me or my good behavior?
- If God wants good behavior, what is the reason He wants it?
And if my children disobey me, does it immediately follow that they don't love me?
If my children disobey me, does it immediately follow that I am displeased with them?
Who or what is the source of our discipline? Is the law our source of discipline?
But you don't; and I don't. And yet I still love Him and He still loves me.
If I do something that pleases Him, is it I who do it or is it He who does it through me?
BFA
Last edited:
Upvote
0
k4c
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that everything you say cancels itself out. It's like grabbing at the air.
Do you believe God has a standard for what godly love looks like?
Do homosexuals love each other?
Would you say they have a godly love or an ungodly love?
For the Christian, the Law of God is the standard for godly and Jesus is what that standard looks like in real life.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
