What are we to do respecting the Ten Commandments?

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

To make sure no one mistakes me I shall list the Ten Commandments as they are received by the Catholic Church. The passages from which the list is derived is Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5

Deuteronomy 5:1-21 NASB (1) Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. (2) "The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. (3) "The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today. (4) "The LORD spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, (5) while I was standing between the LORD and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. He said,

(6) 'I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. (7) 'You shall have no other gods before Me. (8) 'You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. (9) 'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, (10) but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
(11) 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
(12) 'Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. (13) 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, (14) but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. (15) 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.
(16) 'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may go well with you on the land which the LORD your God gives you.
(17) 'You shall not murder.
(18) 'You shall not commit adultery.
(19) 'You shall not steal.
(20) 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
(21) 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, and
you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field or his male servant or his female servant, his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.'

RandyPNW · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
To make sure no one mistakes me I shall list the Ten Commandments as they are received by the Catholic Church. The passages from which the list is derived is Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5

(12) 'Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. (13) 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, (14) but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. (15) 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

How we respond on this issue depends on whether we are dealing with NT/OT differences or not. The early Christian Bible was the OT Bible. It was understood that the Law had been fulfilled in Christ. And at the same time it was understood that the principles of the Law had not been violated by Christ's introduction of a New Covenant system.

So an early Christian could easily say he "keeps the 10 Commandments" while not at all suggesting the Law as a system remained n place. Rather, he would've meant that he maintains the same principled lifestyle that God suggested befits any man or woman who lives in the image of God.

Obviously, the commandment to "keep the Sabbath holy" was not to be maintained as part of the OT system, but rather, something fulfilled in recognizing that only Christ could fully "rest" from sin. What was given to Israel to practice out of deference to God's holiness no longer was required of those who had entered into God's holy presence by the grace of Christ.

Heb 6.19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 9.He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption....
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

RandyPNW said:
How we respond on this issue depends on whether we are dealing with NT/OT differences or not. The early Christian Bible was the OT Bible. It was understood that the Law had been fulfilled in Christ. And at the same time it was understood that the principles of the Law had not been violated by Christ's introduction of a New Covenant system.

So an early Christian could easily say he "keeps the 10 Commandments" while not at all suggesting the Law as a system remained n place. Rather, he would've meant that he maintains the same principled lifestyle that God suggested befits any man or woman who lives in the image of God.

Obviously, the commandment to "keep the Sabbath holy" was not to be maintained as part of the OT system, but rather, something fulfilled in recognizing that only Christ could fully "rest" from sin. What was given to Israel to practice out of deference to God's holiness no longer was required of those who had entered into God's holy presence by the grace of Christ.

Heb 6.19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 9.He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption....
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

Why did you select the third commandment (sabbath keeping) as the only one to comment upon?

timothyu · Dec 29, 2024

Yet another example of God saying to put His will first and giving examples of how man's self serving nature required 'sins' to be pointed out. He asks this and gives examples of the failure to do so throughout the Bible, starting in the Garden, Jesus condensed the ten down to two but the purpose was the same, to declare we put God's will first and how to act accordingly.

KevinT · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
To make sure no one mistakes me I shall list the Ten Commandments

You thread title is "What are we to do respecting the Ten Commandments?", so I will give my take on this.

It is of no benefit to God if I abstain from coveting my neighbor's wife
These 10 principles of good living are for the benefit of mankind.
The fact that Jesus fully kept these principles doesn't mean that He "fulfilled" them such that now I can covet my neighbor's wife.
The 10 commandments seem to split into two parts -- love towards God and love towards our fellow man. Jesus mirrors this in His teaching of the two greatest commandments.

In my mind, all 10 of the commandments still describe traps that God is trying to help us avoid. I am not somehow righteous in God's eyes when I restrain from murder, but if I were to commit murder, it would sure complicate everything.

What do you, @Xeno.of.athens, think? Why did you post this question?

Best wishes,

Kevin

RandyPNW · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
Why did you select the third commandment (sabbath keeping) as the only one to comment upon?

All 10 are a subset of the Law. And yet, 9 of them can stand apart from the Law as moral imperatives under any inspired system of government.

However, the Sabbath Law makes no sense outside of the Law of Moses because it is directly related to the message of the Law, which is that Man's Works do not bring God's final rest. Man's Works, being flawed, must give a show of a need for rest, to make room for Christ's ultimate atonement.

timothyu · Dec 29, 2024

Love how we as a species love to complicate everything.

Dan Perez · Dec 29, 2024

RandyPNW said:
All 10 are a subset of the Law. And yet, 9 of them can stand apart from the Law as moral imperatives under any inspired system of government.

However, the Sabbath Law makes no sense outside of the Law of Moses because it is directly related to the message of the Law, which is that Man's Works do not bring God's final rest. Man's Works, being flawed, must give a show of a need for rest, to make room for Christ's ultimate atonement.

The 10 commandments were ALL given to Israel !!

Read Rom 13:8 --9 has fulfilled the LAW . and Col 2:16 says to not respect , DRINKING , of a feast day , OR a new Moon or''

or Sabbaths !!

dan p

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

KevinT said:
You thread title is "What are we to do respecting the Ten Commandments?", so I will give my take on this.

It is of no benefit to God if I abstain from coveting my neighbor's wife

These 10 principles of good living are for the benefit of mankind.

The fact that Jesus fully kept these principles doesn't mean that He "fulfilled" them such that now I can covet my neighbor's wife.

The 10 commandments seem to split into two parts -- love towards God and love towards our fellow man. Jesus mirrors this in His teaching of the two greatest commandments.

In my mind, all 10 of the commandments still describe traps that God is trying to help us avoid. I am not somehow righteous in God's eyes when I restrain from murder, but if I were to commit murder, it would sure complicate everything.

What do you, @Xeno.of.athens, think? Why did you post this question?

Best wishes,

Kevin

The ten commandments were written by the finger (or hand) of God and when I think about it God's finger wrote "freedom" when he wrote the commandments.

timothyu · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
God's finger wrote "freedom" when he wrote the commandments.

Explain please

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

RandyPNW said:
All 10 are a subset of the Law. And yet, 9 of them can stand apart from the Law as moral imperatives under any inspired system of government.

However, the Sabbath Law makes no sense outside of the Law of Moses because it is directly related to the message of the Law, which is that Man's Works do not bring God's final rest. Man's Works, being flawed, must give a show of a need for rest, to make room for Christ's ultimate atonement.

If you read the reasons built into the Sabbath commandment it become clear that it is a moral commandment.

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

timothyu said:
Explain please

Within the confines of the goodness defined by the ten commandments we find freedom from fears of all kinds, fear of injury and death, fear of loss of property or family, fear of loss of personal liberty and we experience the freedom to be good by worshipping the one true God, by keeping his same holy, by respecting our parents and so forth.

Fervent · Dec 29, 2024

I'm confused by the intention of this question, and most others like it. Mostly because such questions seem to be inquiring about what the minimum requirement is to stay in God's grace. It comes across to me as if the inquireror is seeking to merit salvation rather than recognizing their culpability and the need to cast their lot in with a plea for mercy because they are a sinner. I know not what to make of the law, I only beat my chest and say "Have mercy upon me Lord, I am a sinner."

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

Fervent said:
I'm confused by the intention of this question, and most others like it. Mostly because such questions seem to be inquiring about what the minimum requirement is to stay in God's grace.

If you carefully eschew reading your theology into scripture, then you'll have no confusion whatever.

Fervent · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
If you carefully eschew reading your theology into scripture, then you'll have no confusion whatever.

Uh huh. My question isn't about the theological basis of the question, but the motives that leads to asking such a question. Given your history, I believe I can make a reasonable guess as to your motives but I'll leave such speculation aside.

timothyu · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
Within the confines of the goodness defined by the ten commandments we find freedom from fears of all kinds, fear of injury and death, fear of loss of property or family, fear of loss of personal liberty and we experience the freedom to be good by worshipping the one true God, by keeping his same holy, by respecting our parents and so forth.

In other words, God's will ahead of our own because our will is self centred and the basis of all sin. Examples of adultery and theft are all due to self interest.

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

Fervent said:
Given your history

What history is that?

Fervent · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
What history is that?

Your history of thread topics and the general agenda that you so consistently pursue

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 29, 2024

Fervent said:
Your history of thread topics and the general agenda that you so consistently pursue

I have no idea what you think this alleged history is.

Fervent · Dec 29, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
I have no idea what you think this alleged history is.

Well, I won't derail the thread any further by highlighting the singular motive that seems to lie at the heart of your creating threads. If you want to deny having such a history, that's on you. Good luck with your thread.

What are we to do respecting the Ten Commandments?

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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