What are they afraid of?

[Outspoken]

I'll answer you with scripture

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

and "If you love me, follow my commandments."

 

[SnuP]

So. . . does that mean that you believe that adherance to the law plays a part in your eternal security?

 

[Outspoken]

"does that mean that you believe that adherance to the law plays a part in your eternal security?"

Gal 3:19 "What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to who the promise refered had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator."

Notice that it says to whom the promise refered.

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"does that mean that you believe that adherance to the law plays a part in your eternal security?"

Gal 3:19 "What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to who the promise refered had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator."

Notice that it says to whom the promise refered.

What are you getting at.  I'm not following.

 

Maybe I need to restate the question.

Does that mean that you believe that YOUR adherance to the law plays a part in YOUR eternal security?

Obviously, Christ adherance to the law is what allows us to pertake in eternity.  But I want to know about you.  Your beliefs.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"does that mean that you believe that adherance to the law plays a part in your eternal security?"

Gal 3:19 "What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to who the promise refered had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator."

Notice that it says to whom the promise refered.

Outspoken,

Why are you avoiding giving a direct answer to a direct question? 

Generally, people state what they believe then give scripture to back their belief up.  You however, have given scripture and expect us to just know what you believe by reading it. 

By doing this you give the apperarance of arguing just to argue.  Don't you have an opinion that you are bold enough to state? 

 

[Outspoken]

"YOUR adherance to the law plays a part in YOUR eternal security?"

None, I'm not a jew

"Why are you avoiding giving a direct answer to a direct question? "

I'm answering directly with scripture. Is there a better way?

"By doing this you give the apperarance of arguing just to argue."

Someone is asking me questions and I'm answering, what's argumentative about that?

 

[SnuP]

So you don't have to obey any part of the law, because you are not a Jew.
But a Jew can be saved without Jesus by obeying the law.

Have I got your position right?

Does a messianic Jew have a obey any of the law?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"Why are you avoiding giving a direct answer to a direct question? "

I'm answering directly with scripture. Is there a better way?

Outspoken,

There have been many scriptures between us that we have understood in opposite. Quoting only the scripture does not give me your understanding of that scripture so that I may ask further questions, make comments, or have further understanding of your point.

While it may seem obvious to you what you're saying, it is not so obvious to me. 

Originally posted by Outspoken
"By doing this you give the apperarance of arguing just to argue."

Someone is asking me questions and I'm answering, what's argumentative about that?

OK, on this one I apologize.  I did not word the question quite the way I was thinking.

Still, you seem to be avoiding the questions. 

 

[Outspoken]

"Have I got your position right?"

I guess...if you want to simplfy it, but you're leaving out some details..Messianic jews are "jews" they are christians first and formost

 

[Outspoken]

"Still, you seem to be avoiding the questions"

Nope, just giving you scripture that plainly explains my views.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Outspoken,

Did you not notice what else I said?

By Quaffer
Quoting only the scripture does not give me your understanding of that scripture so that I may ask further questions, make comments, or have further understanding of your point.

While it may seem obvious to you what you're saying, it is not so obvious to me.

Thank you

 

[MizDoulos]

Note:&nbsp&nbspThe discussion has gone off topic at this point. Please refer to the first page for the original question if anyone wishes to continue discussing the topic. Otherwise, refrain from bickering and making any further comments that will cause disharmony.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Outspoken]

"Why is it some Christians find dancing, clapping, raising hands, shouting praises to God, etc offensive or "of the devil"? "

Its not of the devil, but it can be. There is a time for everything and sometimes people are too liberal or too conservative in a gathering of the church. This is why Paul gives us instructions in the NT on worship

 

[Andrew]

SnuP and Quaffie,

"Why is it some Christians find dancing, clapping, raising hands, shouting praises to God, etc offensive or "of the devil"? "

the same reason why the pharisees with the 'holier-than-thou" attitudes found Jesus offensive.

the same reason why Michal found David's naked dancing offensive.

 

[Outspoken]

"the same reason why the pharisees with the 'holier-than-thou" attitudes found Jesus offensive. "

Not always andrew, but yes I do agree that happens sometimes, but sometimes it is well founded, and we have a great example of both in the bible, once with David (unfounded) and a few with Paul (founded).

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Outspoken
and a few with Paul (founded).

Where is the Biblical reference you are mentioning here?  And why is the people being offended by Paul, "founded"? Meaning, Paul was in the wrong.

 

[SnuP]

He's trying to tie in 1 cor. 14's limitation on the proper use of spiritual gifts with worship. But that tie just does not exist. And every time we have asked him to show proper support of this position he starts running us around in circles. And telling us that we haven't read the scriptures or that we don't know what we are talking about.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SnuP
He's trying to tie in 1 cor. 14's limitation on the proper use of spiritual gifts with worship. But that tie just does not exist. And every time we have asked him to show proper support of this position he starts running us around in circles. And telling us that we haven't read the scriptures or that we don't know what we are talking about.

Oh.  OK. 

 

[Blindfaith]

[mod hat on]

That's it.  This thread is being closed.  I'll confer with the other Mod's to see if it should be trashed.  Based upon the last few snippy comments, I'm going to recommend it.

This is not reflect solely on Quaffar, but on others as well.  Quaffer pm'd me requesting that I delete her remark, which I did, and appreciate the suggestion. 

Please keep in mind when posting ~ we're all on the same side, and one day, we're going to be meeting each other in Heaven one day.  Be nice!

[mod hat off]