What are the wages of sin?

LutheranMafia · Dec 30, 2011

Timothew said:
Just don't pull verses that say "your reward is in heaven" and then say "See! You go there!" Because that verse doesn't say that.

Then what does the Bible mean when it says your reward is in heaven? You have no answer to that question.

cupid dave · Dec 30, 2011

Timothew said:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Please vote in the poll. Are the wages of sin death or something other than death?

This is a public poll.

Actully, the wages of sin are sexual favors to the men while the women incur power in a society that patriarchies like Islam and China and North Korea deny them.

The ultimate pay off for both man and women is the death of a rich and properous society due to the high rates of illegitamcy and crimes of the next fatherless generations.

see the argument for this here Revelation 17: The harlot of Babylon

Timothew · Dec 30, 2011

LutheranMafia said:
Then what does the Bible mean when it says your reward is in heaven? You have no answer to that question.

Our reward comes from God, who is in heaven. Our reward is eternal life.
But my request from you was: If you can find a verse in the bible that I've somehow missed, a verse that says "You go to heaven when you die," then I will admit I am wrong.

You have no verse that says that. Which is weird considering that you believe that is the MAIN point of the bible.

Seeking His Face · Jan 1, 2012

Stop worshipping the paper idol and start doing the will of God instead of worrying about what happens to unsaved sinners when they die. Love God, love your neighbor. Maybe if you were out reaching people with the good news of salvation, you wouldn't have so much time to ponder the damnation of those who haven't been saved yet.

Timothew · Jan 2, 2012

Seeking His Face said:
Stop worshipping the paper idol and start doing the will of God instead of worrying about what happens to unsaved sinners when they die. Love God, love your neighbor. Maybe if you were out reaching people with the good news of salvation, you wouldn't have so much time to ponder the damnation of those who haven't been saved yet.

OK I will do that. I won't tell anyone the wages of sin is death.
I expect the other side to also agree to your truce, and stop telling people that God set up an eternal torture pit where people are tortured for all eternity because they took a cookie without asking first.

LutheranMafia · Jan 3, 2012

Timothew said:
Our reward comes from God, who is in heaven. Our reward is eternal life.

God is everywhere, not just in Heaven. Eternal life is not in Heaven, it will be down here on Earth, so that is not an answer as to what the Bible is talking about with all this Heavenly reward business. You haven't answered the question.

Timothew said:
But my request from you was: If you can find a verse in the bible that I've somehow missed, a verse that says "You go to heaven when you die," then I will admit I am wrong.

You have no verse that says that. Which is weird considering that you believe that is the MAIN point of the bible.

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:2

So Jesus has prepared a place for us in Heaven, the Bible clearly states.

If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far
Philippians 1:22-23

There is no time delay here, no aeon between death and resurrection, Paul says that as soon as he dies and is departed he will be present with Christ, not in a nonexistent limbo.

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8

Being at home with the Lord does not mean nonexistent limbo.

Timothew · Jan 3, 2012

LutheranMafia said:
God is everywhere, not just in Heaven. Eternal life is not in Heaven, it will be down here on Earth, so that is not an answer as to what the Bible is talking about with all this Heavenly reward business. You haven't answered the question.

In My Fathers house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:2

So Jesus has prepared a place for us in Heaven, the Bible clearly states.

If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far
Philippians 1:22-23

There is no time delay here, no aeon between death and resurrection, Paul says that as soon as he dies and is departed he will be present with Christ, not in a nonexistent limbo.

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8

Being at home with the Lord does not mean nonexistent limbo.

Hey, stop worshipping the paper idol.

LutheranMafia · Jan 3, 2012

I don't know what you mean by paper idol.

You still didn't answer the question about what our Heavenly reward is that is so often spoken of in the Bible.

Here is another verse about how the Godly will go to Heaven:

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
2 Corinthians 5:1-4

Timothew · Jan 3, 2012

LutheranMafia said:
I don't know what you mean by paper idol.

I don't know either. I was quoting Mr. Seeking His Face in this post a few posts back:http://www.christianforums.com/t7580660-13/#post59435999

2 Cor 1-5 is about the resurrection, being resurrected and putting on bodies that God makes for us.

Seeking His Face · Jan 3, 2012

"Heavenly" refers to the entire spiritual realm/dimension, not necessarily to an ethereal "home beyond the blue" where angels sit on clouds strumming harps. The heavens are all around us, not just way out there beyond the boundary of the universe.

old weatherd cross · Jan 5, 2012

About $ 4.50 an hour

Timothew · Jan 5, 2012

old weatherd cross said:
About $ 4.50 an hour

I don't know, but I think it costs more than that.

Timothew · Jan 5, 2012

...and the priest said "for a minute I thought you said that you became a protestant"

LutheranMafia · Jan 6, 2012

Timothew said:
2 Cor 1-5 is about the resurrection, being resurrected and putting on bodies that God makes for us.

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Corinthians 5:1

So what it says is, When we die we got Heaven. You asked for a verse that says that when we die we go to Heaven, well here it is. This is not speaking of the resurrection, the resurrection will be here on Earth, not in Heaven.

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8

And this says that to be dead is to be at home with the Lord. It is crystal clear, I don't see why you are having some much trouble understanding these verses.

Timothew · Jan 6, 2012

LutheranMafia said:
I don't see why you are having some much trouble understanding these verses.

I'm not. You and I just disagree as usual.

LutheranMafia · Jan 6, 2012

Disagree in what way? You just don't have an answer to these verses.

Why are you so beholden to your doctrine of nonexistent limbo so much that you deny verses that clearly speak against your doctrine? Belief in a state of nonexistent limbo clearly does not strengthen your faith, so why do you cling to it so?

Timothew · Jan 6, 2012

LutheranMafia said:
Disagree in what way? You just don't have an answer to these verses.

Why are you so beholden to your doctrine of nonexistent limbo so much that you deny verses that clearly speak against your doctrine? Belief in a state of nonexistent limbo clearly does not strengthen your faith, so why do you cling to it so?

I don't believe in limbo. I believe that is a Catholic Belief, not that it matters to me.

I believe the bible is true. My faith has been strengthen a lot since I discarded the false idea that God is sadistic ogre who tortures his enemies in fiery hell for all eternity.

On the other hand, why does it matter to you? If the eternal torment side doesn't have an answer for something, they just shrug and say "God's ways are mysterious and unknowable." If I give you an answer you don't like you say "Aha! Gotcha". Why come to me for answers? Why don't you read the bible for answers? In fact, I think you read the bible a lot. You probably read the bible through each year. This year when you read through the bible, ask yourself (or better yet, ask God) whether what you are reading supports eternal torment or the truth.

Belief in the resurrection certainly strengthens my faith. Why wouldn't it. Just last night as I was driving to a church meeting I was reflecting on how great it is that I will receive true life from God in the resurrection, and not a half-life that some people put their faith in.

old weatherd cross · Jan 6, 2012

You sin and you die, thus the wages of sin is death.
Everyone sins and everyone dies.
Nobody gets out alive not even,....jesus!

Timothew · Jan 6, 2012

old weatherd cross said:
You sin and you die, thus the wages of sin is death.
Everyone sins and everyone dies.
Nobody gets out alive not even,....jesus!

Once Jesus took our sins onto himself, he became subject to death. So he died on the cross. But also being God wouldn't remain dead, so he rose on the 3rd day. He promises to give us that same resurrection when he returns.

old weatherd cross · Jan 6, 2012

"Once Jesus took our sins onto himself, he became subject to death."

Correct. While in the flesh Jesus experienced sin and was caused to die.

What are the wages of sin?

What are the wages of sin?

Death

Something other than death, such as eternal torment.

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