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Is it also true that the sabbath was a memorial of the Israelite's exodus from Egypt?
Would it be safe to conclude that you also believe the seventh-day sabbath was a shadow of something to come?
BFA
In the same manner as it was with His first coming and fullfilling the spring feasts, so also I see that He will fullfill the fall feasts with His second coming... maybe right down to the 3 1/2 message first.. cause the Feast of Trumpets is announced by two witnesses which I find interesting thinking about Rev 13.
False.
It indicates it was the day before the sabbath.
Correct.
Mary had to wait until after the sabbath, and John 19:31 states that it was the High Sabbath, not a weekly sabbath: "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.".
This was the annual sabbath of the Passover.
It wasn't until after this sabbath was over that Mary was able to buy enbalming spices.
That is correct.
You didn't notice that Mary had to have the enbalming spices in her possession before she could prepare them for use, and she couldn't procure them until the sabbath was over. And then after she had prepared them, she rested on the weekly sabbath.
It is evident from the Gospel accounts that there were two sabbaths in the week Jesus was crucified, and Mary procured the spices on the day in between the two. Do the math, and formulate a model that is compliant with the length of days and nights Jesus laid in the grave: "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40).
The idea of a Friday crucifixion comes from the Roman Catholic church, and is one of their various additions to tradition that isn't supported by Scripture. I believe you have still adopted a model that is unBiblical.
Just as you have adopted a model of a continued sabbath in a dispensation when God took that shadow away with His own Hand and gave us entrance into His permanent rest. That is another series of posts you have not answered, from both ByFaithAlone and myself.
If the seventh-day sabbath is a memorial of redemption, did Jesus Christ fulfill it?
BFA
Even Rev 10 says .. prophecy again.. Paul said the feasts are shadows of things to come.... but the body is of Christ...Wow! You lost me here. Are you advocating a tiered fulfillment of jots and tittles? Is that what Jesus said He came to do?
BFA
Even Rev 10 says .. prophecy again.. Paul said the feasts are shadows of things to come.... but the body is of Christ...
The shadow of things TO COME.. speak of future events...
The feasts that were fulfilled at His first coming were all spring feasts {check Lev 23 for the full list of His feasts}.
We know He was the Passover Lamb sacrificed during Passover that year He died. We know He is unleavened bread. We know that He is first fruits of the resurrected dead. We know He sent His Holy Spirit to the upper room on Pentecost... all on the day of each feasts.... Fulfilled
After the Lord's work in creating the world was finished, He rested on the Holy 7th-day Sabbath.
After the Lord's work of redemption of man was finished, He rested on the Holy 7th-day Sabbath again.
Thus the 7th-day Sabbath is a memorial of creation and of redemption.
He fulfilled all of the commandments, including the 4th commandment and the 5th commandment, etc.
You do know that the Feasts are moe'dim.. aka God's appointments... They are also known as both rehearsals and memorials... rehearsals [aka of things to come] and memorials [remember]In your prior posts, you've acknowledged that the sabbath was a shadow of something to come.
You seem to be seeking to make a distinction between laws, but Jesus Christ confirmed that He came to fulfill and that not one jot or tittle would pass until He had done just that.
Either He fulfilled the law or He didn't. We cannot pick and choose which laws we like and cast aside those we don't. Either they were all fulfilled or they are all in effect.
I did as you suggested. There, among this list of holy convocations of the Lord, I found the seventh day sabbath.
We also know that the sacrificial sytem was a key component of seventh-day sabbath observance. As part of God-ordained sabbath keeping, the children of Israel offered special sacrifices. Sabbath keeping that does not include these special sacrifices is outside of the type of sabbath observance commanded by God. In essence, it is a new sabbath that is unrelated to the old testament or the ten commandments.
BFA
You do know that the Feasts are moe'dim.. aka God's appointments... They are also known as both rehearsals and memorials... rehearsals [aka of things to come] and memorials [remember]
absolutely.... His appointments are both a rehearsal and memorial.... Both are to be celebrated for both what they represent in rehearsal and in memorial...If this is true, would this not also apply to the seventh day sabbath, which was one of the Lord's holy convocations?
BFA
Regardless of whether you adopt a model of Mary purchasing only part of the enbalming spices after the sabbath or the entire inventory necessary to enbalm the body of Jesus, you have painted yourself into a corner you can't get out of. Mark 16:1 is clear when it tells us that the sabbath was over before the women bought these spices, and you have Luke 24:1 telling us that these spices were prepared in the past tense when the first day of the week came. Mary and her aids didn't leave the site of the crucifixion to go buy spices while Jesus hung on a cross, and this very premise violates the historical account that we have. As I mentioned before, there is no means you have to reconcile your thesis with the Biblical record.It is not difficult to reconcile the two accounts given in Mark and Luke about the women preparing the spices, and purchasing the spices to embalm the body of the Messiah. It was just before the Sabbath when the ordeal of the cross had transpired. The Messiah's body was placed in the tomb, and there was not sufficient time before the Sabbath to purchase embalming spices. The women prepared the spices that they already had, then waited until after the Sabbath was passed to procure the remainder of the spices they needed and took them very early in the morning of the first day of the week to the tomb. Just take the story line
as it reads, and don't try to make the Bible fit your own particular scenario. As you can never arrive at the truth in this way.
This violates the historical record, and contradicts Scripture's testimony showing that Mary bought spices after the High Sabbath was over, and had the spices prepared before the only other sabbath that is mentioned. There was a day between these two sabbaths when Mary procured these spices (spice shops aren't open on either of the sabbaths) and prepared them for use.It is true that there were 2 Sabbaths that week, only there was not even a single day between them.
This can't be reconciled with the title of this thread you created, that testifies that the sabbath was a shadow as it is presented in Colossians 2:16-17. The meaning of a shadow (the Greek skia) indicates "an image cast by an object and representing the form of that object", meaning that the sabbath was only an image of a greater reality that it represented. Hebrews 3-4 deal with the topic of God's rest, and shows that it was a permanent rest that the children of Israel never attained during the time that they observed the sabbath. Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 to show the origin of God's rest that has never ended nor repeated, and the sabbath was a shadow of that permanent rest that wasn't ordained until long after God's rest. It is the permanent that we have entered into, having left the repeating shadow behind: "For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:10).The Messiah has shown by His fulfillment of the Passover and the lunar "shadow" Sabbaths that the 7th-day Sabbath is not a shadow. Only the lunar "shadow" Sabbaths were shadows. They represented the 7th day of the week. There cannot be a shadow making another shadow--shadows cannot make shadows.
I even caught you replacing the Gospel of God's adoption and grace apart from the futile deeds of the law, and replacing it with a soteriology based on your own works:Our thread sponsor has concluded that the seventh day sabbath is not prophetic at all.
BFA
ByFaithAlone made a statement that really speaks well of the motivation you possess, that has caused you to disregard the Gospel in so many important ways:You must be kidding.The 7th-day Sabbath is a test of our loyalty. It defines our allegiance, who we are serving.
This doesn't explain the temporal nature of the sabbath that was a mere shadow of God's eternal rest that we have entered into.
Your statement asserting a test of "loyalty" in the present tense cannot be reconciled with a component of law that was terminated nearly 2000 years ago.
Of a more serious concern is your notion of a "test of loyalty" that is obviously a condition for eternal life, and is a rejection of salvation by grace. You need to earn "salvation", impossible in light of God's conclusion that all are disobedient to the former covenant law (Romans 11:32). Romans 4:4 shows that a "test of loyalty" isn't an appeal to God's salvation: Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt..
Can anyone say "classic works-based soteriology"?
Sure you can.
It's a claim made by every cult deviant from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
We have been given the reality, while your views have kept you chained to the shadow that had a limited tenure and jurisdiction, and has long expired.It seems that you may be forcing a prophetic interpretation on a passage even though the interpretation is negated by the passage itself.
BFA
absolutely.... His appointments are both a rehearsal and memorial.... Both are to be celebrated for both what they represent in rehearsal and in memorial...
Seventh day sabbath has two reasons to remember it embedded right in the command...
Remember it because He is the Creator.....
Remember it because He is our Redeemer...
The cycle of seventh is rift with rehearsals and memorials... and in ever enlarging cycles.. including the milliniumIs the seventh-day sabbath one of the sabbaths that are a shadow of that which is to come?
BFA
The cycle of seventh is rift with rehearsals and memorials... and in ever enlarging cycles.. including the millinium
Amen...as much as I may disagree with Victor on some things, I do agree with him on other things -- this one, for example: There were two sabbaths in the week of Christ's passion."
And with this understanding, it makes Jesus' prediction that he would be in the grave three days and three nights an exact and literal prophecy.
IF you believe that a day in the Lord's court is like a thousand years here on earth... yeah.. one of these days.. we will enter into the Lord's rest in Heaven and join Him in the {earth's millinium rest} Heaven's Great Sabbath with our Lord.Just to confirm (I don't want to jump to conclusions) -- can I take this to mean that you believe the seventh-day sabbath is one of the sabbaths that are a shadow of things to come?
BFA
as much as I may disagree with Victor on some things, I do agree with him on other things -- this one, for example: There were two sabbaths in the week of Christ's passion."
And with this understanding, it makes Jesus' prediction that he would be in the grave three days and three nights an exact and literal prophecy.
And with this understanding, it makes Jesus' prediction that he would be in the grave three days and three nights an exact and literal prophecy.
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