What Are The Sabbaths In Colossians 2:16, 17 Shadows Of?

Joe67 · Mar 7, 2010

Martinman said:
All Sabbaths could not be contemporaneous, there has to be a substance for a "shadow" to exist. It is impossible that the seventh-day Sabbath could be a "shadow" because a shadow cannot create a shadow. The Messiah, Himself, in His fulfillment of the "shadow" Sabbaths, clearly demonstrated that the seventh-day Sabbath was the substance that caused the shadow. He interpreted the "shadow" Sabbaths.

There must be an antitype for the instituting of a type.

"...for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20.

"I had not known sin, but by the law:" Romans 7:7.

These texts show that sin could not be defined unless God's ten commandments already existed before man fell into sin. In the old covenant the ten commandments were placed within the ark of the covenant. The ark of the covenant represented God Himself. Therefore, the very nature of God was shown by this placement of the tables of stone. This law is His heart and He promises in the new covenant to write that very same law (character) in our hearts.

"After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jeremiah 31:33.

Martin,

This is good and let us go on to the Lord's testimony through Ezekiel concerning this new covenant.

Ezek 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. KJV

And then to hear its purified amplification by the earnest of the Spirit through the agent of the Lord, Paul.

2 Cor 3:2-3
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. KJV

Joe

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

Mow’ed Strong’s H4150
1) appointed place, appointed time, meeting
a) appointed time
1) appointed time (general)
2) sacred season, set feast, appointed season
b) appointed meeting
c) appointed place
d) appointed sign or signal
e) tent of meeting

The very first mention of the use of the Hebrew word Mow’ed is in Genesis 1:14 on day 4 of Creation. Here in verse 14 Mow’ed is translated seasons...

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons (Moed), and for days, and years:

First note that these are God’s appointments. [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts. That is “My feasts” says the LORD.

The other key word here that bears looking at is convocations (miqra) Strongs 4744 a convocation, convoking, reading
Word origin from qara
assembly, calling, convocation, reading
From qara’; something called out, i.e. A public meeting (the act, the persons, or the place); also a rehearsal — assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

The ancients where rehearsing God’s Feasts as rehearsal for the ultimate fulfillment of Messiah in these Appointments. I will add here for anyone who may not know that the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the first four (spring feasts) to the very day and hour that the rehearsals where actually going on at the temple,at His first coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEulQJmdbfA&feature=player_embedded#

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

Martinman said:
All Sabbaths could not be contemporaneous, there has to be a substance for a "shadow" to exist. It is impossible that the seventh-day Sabbath could be a "shadow" because a shadow cannot create a shadow.

You had pointed out before that the sabbath was made for man, meaning that it wasn't God's rest. Isn't this enough to see that the sabbath was a shadow of God's rest that remained a promise for man to attain (Hebrews 4:1-6), that the sabbath pointed forward to?

Martinman said:
These texts show that sin could not be defined unless God's ten commandments already existed before man fell into sin.

That is false, as Romans 5 shows how the entrance of sin happened:

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Adam's transgression was eating the fruit of the forbidden tree. That commandment doesn't even exist in the covenant law mediated through Moses. Furthermore, Moses testified in Deuteronomy 5:2-3 that the ten commandments was a covenant that didn't exist prior to his own generation. Your assertion that the ten commandments existed before the fall of man is a violation of the Biblical record.

Martinman said:
In the old covenant the ten commandments were placed within the ark of the covenant. The ark of the covenant represented God Himself. Therefore, the very nature of God was shown by this placement of the tables of stone. This law is His heart and He promises in the new covenant to write that very same law (character) in our hearts.

False.
God promised to write His "My law" into our hearts and minds, that wasn't according to the covenant given at Sinai, as Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 document. Hebrews 8:13 capitalizes on this theme when it concludes In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. God did not write the "same law" into anyone, and Hebrews 10:9 declares the first covenant was "taken away". That first covenant was the ten commandments, defined in the law itself in several places.

Martinman said:
"After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jeremiah 31:33.

And had you included the previous verse in your quote, you would have seen that God's "My law" isn't according to the first covenant given at Sinai.

Now, compare these points with what Ellen White wrote:

Ellen White said:
The yoke that binds to service is the law of God. The great law of love revealed in Eden, proclaimed upon Sinai, and in the new covenant written in the heart, is that which binds the human worker to the will of God. {ST, June 29, 1904 par. 4}

It isn't hard to see that Ellen White attributed an origin for the Sinai covenant in clear contradiction to Scripture, and further violates Scripture when she postulated entrance of that first covenant into the hearts and minds of those God promised a new covenant to.

My question to you is to consider why Ellen White lied.
She certainly wasn't inspired by any source one would want to abide by.

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

There are numerous threads out in GT on the validity of the sabbath in NT lives.. Can athis thread remain on sabbath... shadow of things to come...???

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
The ancients where rehearsing God’s Feasts as rehearsal for the ultimate fulfillment of Messiah in these Appointments. I will add here for anyone who may not know that the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the first four (spring feasts) to the very day and hour that the rehearsals where actually going on at the temple,at His first coming.

I agree that the spring feasts were fulfilled exactly to the day and hour by Messiah in His sacrifice (Passover) and resurrection (FirstFruits), and Shavout was fulfilled literally when His Spirit was poured out to believing Judah and Israel.

The manner in which the spring feasts were fulfilled in one season sets the precedent for how the fall feasts will be fulfilled in one season just prior to the second advent. What this means is that Adventism's attribution of the feast of Trumpets to 1844 is utterly false; Jesus didn't return in that same season. 1844 continues to be a myth in Adventist eschatology.

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
There are numerous threads out in GT on the validity of the sabbath in NT lives.. Can athis thread remain on sabbath... shadow of things to come...???

Are you addressing my posts?
You might consider some of my contributions on the GT board, such as BrightCandle's thread concerning his hypothesis that the ten commandments exist in heaven.

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

VictorC said:
I agree that the spring feasts were fulfilled exactly to the day and hour by Messiah in His sacrifice (Passover) and resurrection (FirstFruits), and Shavout was fulfilled literally when His Spirit was poured out to believing Judah and Israel.

The manner in which the spring feasts were fulfilled in one season sets the precedent for how the fall feasts will be fulfilled in one season just prior to the second advent. What this means is that Adventism's attribution of the feast of Trumpets to 1844 is utterly false; Jesus didn't return in that same season. 1844 continues to be a myth in Adventist eschatology.

For whatever reason for the miss calculation, my understanding is that Miller was convicted that there is a relationship between the feasts and the second coming... on that aspect, there is something to that... even us we are here today, can get the impression that the Lord is speaking to our hearts that we are now approaching the time when the Lord will keep His appointed [rehearsal] time with us. In that part, it has caused the study on the subject of the fall feasts and their relationship to the Lord's second coming.

Looking for fault with any who have gone before us is a look at the past and not a focus on the future... and the prophecy to be fulfilled... Waste of breath in my view.

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

VictorC said:
Are you addressing my posts?
You might consider some of my contributions on the GT board, such as BrightCandle's thread concerning his hypothesis that the ten commandments exist in heaven.

You should make that into another thread so not to rabbit trail this one... which should be dealing exclusively on the "shadow of things to come" exclusively.

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
You should make that into another thread so not to rabbit trail this one... which should be dealing exclusively on the "shadow of things to come" exclusively.

My posts are germane to the topic presented by the OP author. He doesn't see the weekly sabbath as a shadow that was fulfilled. I do. I have entered a permanent rest that is inherently seven times superior to the shadow that was the sabbath, cast by the reality of God's eternal rest.

See my post to you on GT: we're sons and daughters of the King

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
For whatever reason for the miss calculation, my understanding is that Miller was convicted that there is a relationship between the feasts and the second coming... on that aspect, there is something to that... even us we are here today, can get the impression that the Lord is speaking to our hearts that we are now approaching the time when the Lord will keep His appointed [rehearsal] time with us. In that part, it has caused the study on the subject of the fall feasts and their relationship to the Lord's second coming.

Looking for fault with any who have gone before us is a look at the past and not a focus on the future... and the prophecy to be fulfilled... Waste of breath in my view.

You're forgetting that William Miller discarded his arguments for 1843/44 after the alleged event passed, and refused to lend any support to those groups that insisted on attributing significance to this date. 2/3 of the Millerites dispanded and returned to their former life of fellowship in Christian churches, while 1/3 of his followers refused to. The major groups that refused to follow Miller's example became the Jehovah's Witnesses and the seventh-day Adventists.

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

I would rather remain forcused on the biblical reason they even exist.. they are a shadow of things to come. As to your question regarding the sabbath rest which Hebrews is talking about.. the Jubilee was known as the sabbath rest to come... the Millinium... just a thought.

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
I would rather remain forcused on the biblical reason they even exist.. they are a shadow of things to come. As to your question regarding the sabbath rest which Hebrews is talking about.. the Jubilee was known as the sabbath rest to come... the Millinium... just a thought.

Oh, c'mon!
Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 as an example of God's "My rest" that existed 2500 years before the sabbath was ordained. From that verse 10 concludes "he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His". There is no reason to wait for the millennium for God's rest, when it is shown that we have already entered into it.

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

VictorC said:
Oh, c'mon!
Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 as an example of God's "My rest" that existed 2500 years before the sabbath was ordained. From that verse 10 concludes "he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His". There is no reason to wait for the millennium for God's rest, when it is shown that we have already entered into it.

Subject worthy of a thread all its own...

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
Subject worthy of a thread all its own...

We have probably a dozen on the GT forum already - but it is germane to this thread, since it was a subject you introduced.

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

I didn't introduce.. Heb "rest" issue.

VictorC · Mar 7, 2010

visionary said:
I didn't introduce.. Heb "rest" issue.

I think you're engaged in a game of avoidance, and if you would like to have a separate thread in order to address the distinction between the sabbaton shadow that pointed toward the sabbatismos reality, then please feel free to start one. Also, see my post to you on GT: we're sons and daughters of the King

visionary · Mar 7, 2010

Martinman said:
The sacred year calendar given by God to Moses for the Hebrews was made up of 7 months, each month beginning with the new moon. The first month of the year coincided with the time of the barley harvest.

"...the first month of the Jewish year, corresponding to the last of March and the beginning of April." PP 537

All of the annual feast days and "shadow" Sabbaths from Leviticus 23 were scheduled to occur within these 7 months. After the seventh month, there were several more months to complete the year and to maintain the 7 months of the sacred year in syn with the seasons.

Without visual calendars, the Hebrews were able to count the days from the new moon to the day designated for each of the feast days including the days designated as "shadow" Sabbaths.

"Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings,... on the first day [shall be] a sabbath, and on the eighth day [shall be] a sabbath." Leviticus 23: 38, 39

The 7th-day Sabbath, however, was scheduled entirely by the sun, from sunset to sunset the days were numbered.

There is a very interesting phenomona that applies to all the feast days and that is--whenever the new moon that regulates the annual feast days coincides with the 7th-day Sabbaths then all the "shadow" Sabbaths that are governed by that new moon, also fall on 7th-day Sabbaths. There are 8 "shadow" Sabbath dispersed among the spring festivals and 4 dispersed among the fall festivals, making a total of 12 (using the King James Version of the Bible). It first appears that only 11 of them could coincide with 7th-day Sabbaths, but a closer and a deeper examination clearly shows that all 12 of them precisely align with 7th-day Sabbaths within a particular setting. (This will be explained in depth later

When our Messiah fulfilled the festivals relating to His first advent, the new moon of the first month and ALL 8 of the "shadow" Sabbaths within the spring feast days, coincided with 7th-day Sabbaths. He is the True Interpreter. His interpretation is the only valid one that we can consider.

Still working on OP... to me ... We could try to see if it is true whether or not all the shadow sabbaths did coincide with the 7th day sabbath the year our Lord fulfilled them.

VictorC · Mar 8, 2010

visionary said:
Still working on OP... to me ... We could try to see if it is true whether or not all the shadow sabbaths did coincide with the 7th day sabbath the year our Lord fulfilled them.

I am not aware of any significance this alleged relationship would have. I have noticed that Mary and the gals bought embalming spices after the high sabbath (Mark 16:1), prepared them (Luke 23:56), and had to wait until after the weekly sabbath to apply them to the body of Jesus (Luke 24:1). This is consistent with the view that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday afternoon, laid in the grave three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40), and rose on the pre-dawn morning of the first day (Sunday). This reckoning would place the high sabbath of the Passover on Thursday the year Jesus was crucified.

I think that BFA and I both looked over the premise of the OP dispassionately, as the day the annual sabbaths fell on doesn't seem important, especially now in a time we have been redeemed from the law that ordained the sabbaths.

visionary · Mar 8, 2010

VictorC said:
I am not aware of any significance this alleged relationship would have. I have noticed that Mary and the gals bought embalming spices after the high sabbath (Mark 16:1), prepared them (Luke 23:56), and had to wait until after the weekly sabbath to apply them to the body of Jesus (Luke 24:1). This is consistent with the view that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday afternoon, laid in the grave three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40), and rose on the pre-dawn morning of the first day (Sunday). This reckoning would place the high sabbath of the Passover on Thursday the year Jesus was crucified.

I think that BFA and I both looked over the premise of the OP dispassionately, as the day the annual sabbaths fell on doesn't seem important, especially now in a time we have been redeemed from the law that ordained the sabbaths.

So we need to be redeem from the Law that ordained the sabbath??????..... how can that be since it will be there in eternity...??????

Isaiah 66:23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

visionary · Mar 8, 2010

VictorC said:
I am not aware of any significance this alleged relationship would have. I have noticed that Mary and the gals bought embalming spices after the high sabbath (Mark 16:1), prepared them (Luke 23:56), and had to wait until after the weekly sabbath to apply them to the body of Jesus (Luke 24:1). This is consistent with the view that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday afternoon, laid in the grave three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40), and rose on the pre-dawn morning of the first day (Sunday). This reckoning would place the high sabbath of the Passover on Thursday the year Jesus was crucified.

I think that BFA and I both looked over the premise of the OP dispassionately, as the day the annual sabbaths fell on doesn't seem important, especially now in a time we have been redeemed from the law that ordained the sabbaths.

So we need to be redeem from the Law that ordained the sabbath????..... how can that be since it will be there in eternity...???

Isaiah 66:23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

What Are The Sabbaths In Colossians 2:16, 17 Shadows Of?

Newbie

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Jesus - that's my final answer

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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