Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Fair enough. However, a careful review of my posts will reveal that I've asked several times for Scriptural support to verify not only the use of the exact phrase, but also the use of the concept that is often meant by the phrase. I've received neither. Why should I believe a concept that has no Scriptural basis?
BFA
Please try and deal with the context. The context was free will and the ability to choose.
Of course Deut. is not about the grace of Jesus Christ offered by Grace. They was no Jesus Christ incarnation at that time. You are playing games
From you abundant misuse of and out of context statements.
I never equated belief with obedience either.
You have been teaching total depravity and Predestination.
Which points of tulip don't you accept
Again I have never said anything about grace plus works.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Oh that is right I posted an article. But apparently you could not bother to read that.
Fair enough. However, a careful review of my posts will reveal that I've asked several times for Scriptural support to verify not only the use of the exact phrase, but also the use of the concept that is often meant by the phrase. I've received neither. Why should I believe a concept that has no Scriptural basis?
BFA
First several Biblical examples have been given of the concept of free will and the ability to choose.
In which case you rejection of the belief has no scriptural support either.
Many more examples could be given of people determining to do something or making choices.
But to simply assume that man has no choice is to assume that God makes all choices for them, a puppet master.
Salvation is the free gift not faith. (see quote below)I have seen no Scriptural evidence to support the concept of man choosing the free gift of Christ's grace by any means other than the faith that is also a free gift. I have also acknowledged that faith includes a human component. Beyond that, I find no Scriptural basis for the concept of "free will" as it is usually understood by pelagians.
When no clear antecedent is found within a text, Greek scholar William Mounce wisely recommends that the Bible student study the context of the passage in question in order to help determine to what a relative pronoun (like that) is referring (1993, p. 111). The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is mans salvation found in Christ.
Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Ephesians 2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. These two verses thoroughly document how a person is saved, not how a person believes.
- In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace (1:7).
- The heavenly inheritance is found in Christ (1:11).
- After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (1:13).
- Sinners are made alive with Christ and saved by grace (2:5).
- Sinners are brought near to God by the blood of Christ (2:13).
- Paul became a servant of Christ according to the gift of the grace of God by the effective working of His power (3:7).
Paul was not giving an exposition on faith in his letter to the Ephesians. Salvation was his focus. Faith is mentioned as the mode by which salvation is accepted. Salvation is through faith. Just as water is received into a house in twenty-first-century America through a pipeline, a sinner receives salvation through obedient faith. The main focus of Pauls message in Ephesians 2:8-9 was salvation (the living water that springs up into everlasting lifecf. John 4:14), not the mode of salvation.
- Salvation is by grace.
- Salvation is through faith.
- Salvation is not of yourselves.
- Salvation is the gift of God.
- Salvation is not of works.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2297
Believe or you will be destroyed in the lake of fire for ALL eternity.Book of Joshua - Choose you this day whom you will serve - To chose means to make a decision - the concept of decisionmaking is freewill in operation..... Unless you telling us someone put a gun to your head and said believe in God or else......
Trying to create a theology that leaves those lost in sin responsible for saving themselves by making "right decisions", even moreso.Well said, moicherie. Trying to create theology on the basis of English words is an exercise in futility.
Exactly.Fair enough. However, a careful review of my posts will reveal that I've asked several times for Scriptural support to verify not only the use of the exact phrase, but also the use of the concept that is often meant by the phrase. I've received neither. Why should I believe a concept that has no Scriptural basis?
I am saved by grace through faith and by nothing else.
Please provide a Scriptural basis for concluding that one chooses the free gift.
Book of Joshua - Choose you this day whom you will serve - To chose means to make a decision - the concept of decisionmaking is freewill in operation..... Unless you telling us someone put a gun to your head and said believe in God or else......
Salvation is the free gift not faith.
You constantly change the subject between free will and then grace and faith.
You have not even indicated what you think the pelagians view of free will is.
But if man has no free will what Jesus showed us is irrelevant because the people listening to Him can't make any choices.
I don't find any reason to go back and forth on this as you keep changing subjects and changing the context of my statements.
To which noun does the pronoun "it" point? Who is the author and the finisher of your faith? There are reasons you choose not to answer these questions.
(NASB) Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Pelagius said, "Grace indeed freely discharges sins, but with the consent and choice of the believer." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 92, published by The Boydell Press)
I have never said that man can't make any choices, nor do I believe that this is true.
Jesus Christ bes the author and finisher of Moriah's faith.To which noun does the pronoun "it" point? Who is the author and the finisher of your faith?
Exactly as Moriah bes trying to tellsy everyone all along.Byfaithalone1 said:A number of advocates of "free will" claim that man chooses the free gift of grace. I have consistently requested Scriptural evidence that this is true. The lack of such evidence confirms that Scripture does not teach that man chooses the free gift of grace, other than to exercise the gift of faith that He has been given by God.
Yeah well whomever he bes, he definitely added to the word of God, cuz that bes not in Scripture at ALL.Pelagius said, "Grace indeed freely discharges sins, but with the consent and choice of the believer." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 92, published by The Boydell Press)
For the record, Moriah also did speak of a selection process, wherein the chain of causality bes like a mystery in a black box to the children of men and thus they callsy "free will" because they cannot grasp all the components that actually cause them to choose as they do... but likewise it never said no selection process or mechanism exists at all. It simply prefers to use the term "selection process" to "choice".I have never said that man can't make any choices, nor do I believe that this is true.
Believe or you will be destroyed in the lake of fire for ALL eternity.
Sounds like a pretty big freaking gun to Moriah.
I've found nothing in the book of Joshua that suggests that we choose to recieve the free gift of grace. If you have found such a text, can you cite the chapter and verse so I can look it up for myself?
Thanks,
BFA
Depends on if you believe in a lake of fire, even so its still freewill. One is free to jump off the Eiffel Tower but if you do the law of gravity takes over if you don't have a parachute, so would you argue there is a gun at your head to not jump off the Tower?
Freewill does not mean escape from consequences of the decision making process whether the results are good or bad.
Well you won't if you keep changing the goals posts - I mentioned freewill not gift of grace - these are two different words last time I spoke English.
Moicherie if Moriah may (and BFA can correct for his part if this bes not accurate) it believes that there bes two major factors in what both Moriah and BFA have been trying to communicate here.
- the concept of "free will" does not occur in scripture (by name or by modern definition thereof). this does not mean humans do not make "choices" about things.
- nowhere in scripture does it indicate that in order to be given God's FREE GIFT of GRACE one has to "choose" it.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?