If you read the entire thread you would know Orthodox is saying the "keys" given to Peter are the sacraments.
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If you read the entire thread you would know Orthodox is saying the "keys" given to Peter are the sacraments.Try to wrap your head around this, Jake. The Sacraments are not things we have to do to earn grace. They are ways that God has promised in scripture to distribute his grace, not by our doing of the rites but because of the power of God's Word.
Why isn't denying yourself, taking up your Cross and following Him sacramental?
They are sacrificial.
If you read the entire thread you would know Orthodox is saying the "keys" given to Peter are the sacraments.
Ok.Tangible is correct. I said they are means of distribution of grace.
God be gracious to me a sinner.
You might see it this way, but that is not what sacraments mean - they are not the same thing.But wait, we see sacraments described as being a sacrifice all the time
Ok.
.....and even though he may be correct in this instance, it's completely uncool for a dude to enter a thread and slam on a person when they are trying to LEARN something completely foreign to them........
..........
Established - you believe the keys are the sacraments in order for grace to be distributed.....
Where did you learn this? I see the communion and baptism - where did the other ones come from? What do each of them do for you, besides impart grace?
Thanks.
You might see it this way, but that is not what sacraments mean - they are not the same thing.
Sacrificing is giving up your own life so that He might live in us. Our lives are hidden in Christ, it is no longer us.
From The Church of Antioch. The one we read about in ACTS.
They come from the porch of Solomon in Jerusalem circa 33-69ad. The Church of Antioch learned it there and wrote it down.
What people "tout that the Eucharist is sacrificial"?You missed my point. People tout that Eucharist is a sacrifice frequently. Therefore there should be no distinction between sacrifice and sacrament, or at least something being a sacrifice wouldn't bar it from also being a sacrament, if their logic were consistent.
And what you have described sacrifice as, how is that not a means of distributing Grace? (And therefore every bit as much a sacrament as anything else)
Wouldn't that be the Church of Jerusalem? Did the Church of Antioch write any of the Gospels while on said porch?
What people "tout that the Eucharist is sacrificial"?
Surely not the Baptist.
Sacrifice is giving up your own life for the sake of Christ - literally living the life of Christ on earth, so that people will see Christ in you.
The sacraments aren't the "keys". The keys are figurative. Don't you know what keys are? They are that which open the doors of the kingdom. Christ is saying that God has given Peter power and authority over the kingdom to open wide it's doors. Again, there are no literal keys. The keys are figurative. The keys are the power and authority over the kingdom given to Peter.
It was Jerusalem... does that read in a confusing way? Antioch wrote it down while visiting Jerusalem. Antioch wanted to know how it was done in Jerusalem.
Ok, but what is this "it" that Antioch wrote down? And specifically how does this compare to the first writing of the Gospels?
Not me, only people over 40 do that...oh, wait...You're not going to slam me right?
From The Church of Antioch. The one we read about in ACTS.
They come from the porch of Solomon in Jerusalem circa 33-69ad. The Church of Antioch learned it there and wrote it down. (I rather think that would have been St. Prochorus at this point.)
God be gracious to me a sinner.
The sacraments were the thing that St. Peter was given the authority to perform. The ceremony we see is the act of ordination. The giving of a new name and the authority to present the gospel message. (Feed my sheep.)
Not me, only people over 40 do that...oh, wait...
Why did they not talk about it in Acts? Why was it not until after that new instruction came?
Thanks.
But the sacraments aren't the keys. You have no evidence of that.
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