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What ARE The Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven anyhow?

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JacktheCatholic

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This says it all.


 
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jeffweeder

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Peter was to make disciples by preaching the gospel.
To bring souls into the kingdom. He had the key when he was the first to say that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God--the only way into the kingdom.

3000 people found their way into the kingdom the very first day, when Peter preached this truth.
He did indeed have the keys to the kingdom.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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What???

Peter preached at Pentecost which was hardly the same day (something like 50 days later)that Jesus gave him the Keys (not key it is plural).

Not to say that metaphorically what you are teaching is wrong. BUT the use of the word "Keys" in Matthew is NOT metaphorical. It is also almost the same wording as the words from Isaias 22 when it mentions the 'Key' of the house of David. The Key or Keys in Matthew are a symbol of Power. When Jesus spoke these words the correlation to Isaias 22 would not have been lost on any educated person of the scriptures.
 
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jeffweeder

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What???

Peter preached at Pentecost which was hardly the same day (something like 50 days later)that Jesus gave him the Keys (not key it is plural).

He was told to wait until he was clothed with power.
His first sermon netted 3000 souls.
believe in Jesus, repent, baptism, the keys to getting in.


45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ[19][I.e. Messiah] would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 "You are witnesses of these things.
49 "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Jesus opened Heaven to us the day he died on the cross and so long as we are in Christ from baptism then what do we need Keys for?

Think about that a moment.

Also, the idea you propose will work with the symbol of the Keys as well so I need not refute your understanding but instead add that the Keys are also a symbol of power that were granted by the annointed one, our King Jesus.
 
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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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Scripture would be awesome and helpful.

Actually, the answer is in the same Chapter, a little farther down. Jesus is giving His authority to His Church. "Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" And a little later than that "Whoever hears you hears me and whoever rejects you rejects me".
 
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Rick Otto

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JacktheCatholic;...Jesus gave him the Keys (not key it is plural).
Matt 16:19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Not to say that metaphorically what you are teaching is wrong. BUT the use of the word "Keys" in Matthew is NOT metaphorical.
I thought you said it wasn't plural!?
You're backpeddaling over a cliff.

It is also almost the same wording as the words from Isaias 22 when it mentions the 'Key' of the house of David. The Key or Keys...
Almost the same, like it almost isn't plural?

...in Matthew are a symbol of Power. When Jesus spoke these words the correlation to Isaias 22 would not have been lost on any educated person of the scriptures.
You have yet to discern who one of those people might actualy be.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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I haven't read this whole topic, but from these last couple pages, I'd think all of us who know and believe the truth have something of a "key" to heaven. And we can copy them and pass it on to others as well!


Ley us hope the devils don't have copies...
 
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JacktheCatholic

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I thought you said it wasn't plural!?
You're backpeddaling over a cliff.

Let me keep it simple for you Otto.


When we speak of the "Keys of the Kingdom" (Matthew 16) being like the "Key of the House of David" (Isaias 22) we are saying they are synonymous. This means that they are not the same but have important similiarities.

In Isaiah 22 we are told that Shebna is the holder of the Key of the house of David. The story speaks of this Shebna as having his steward ship taken away. It says he is the Master of the palace. When Shebna is stripped of his authority it is given to Eliakim. To show Eliakim is the Master of the House of David he receives the Key which is a symbol of his authority.

But if you think ONLY the Steward of the House of David could open doors then you would be mistaken. The Key probably opened every door in the palace. But others got around too and so others had a key as well. But they only had the amount of authority granted to them that the Steward gave them. This is because the Steward was acting in the King's stead. With no King around someone had to have that same authority. The person that held that authority was Shebna who lost it to Eliakim. When Eliakim became the Master of the Palace he received "the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open" and what else did it say about Elikiam? "I will clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah."

Elikiam became the Master of the House of David. He was a father to all of Jersualem and the house of Judah.

Once you understand what the Key of the House of David signified and what is happening when Elikiam takes this office then you realize much much more.


This Otto is necesary if you think you can ever understand what Jesus said in Matthew 16.

17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
 
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Rick Otto

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if you could just admit when you make a mistake.
Quote:
JacktheCatholic;...Jesus gave him the Keys (not key it is plural).
Matt 16:19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Just admit it was mistake, and it won't be such a big deal anymore.
I admitted to Tad I made a mistake about the Pilgrims fleeing the Pope, when they were realy getting away from the Church of England. It didn't kill me.


Quote:
Not to say that metaphorically what you are teaching is wrong. BUT the use of the word "Keys" in Matthew is NOT metaphorical.
How can it NOT be metaphor if He isn't literaly handing Peter real keys?


Quote:
It is also almost the same wording as the words from Isaias 22 when it mentions the 'Key' of the house of David. The Key or Keys...
Almost the same, like it almost isn't plural? Jack, the only similarity is in the word "keys", but the keys are metaphorical, and not metaphors of authority, but of the wisdom & truth that sets us free.


Quote:
...in Matthew are a symbol of Power. When Jesus spoke these words the correlation to Isaias 22 would not have been lost on any educated person of the scriptures.

Knowlege is power. Knowlege of the truths of the Gospel is the keys to the Kingdom of heaven. As such, an educated person such as yourself can surely see by the preceding verses, Matthew 16 is about Gospel Truth, not ecclesiastical authority. "Who do you say I am?", not "Who do you think I need you to be?"
As you can plainly see, the binding & loosing is in heaven, not on earth where the visible Church & the authority you wish to see placed over it, resides.

Once you realize that the Key To the House Of David is not The Keys to The Kindom of Heaven, all those rationalizations for temporal authority vanish like fog in sunlight.

Had Jesus directly quoted "opens & no man shuts" instead of using "binding & loosing" along with specificaly stating "in heaven", you'd have half a reason to use Isaiah's words as analogy.

You have kept it simple Jack...simply wrong.
I understand your need to trust someone you can see, tho.
I used to, myself. I was RC for the first 18yrs of my life.
I went thru the catechism, went to weekday morning masses, served as altar boy, and was told I should consider becoming either a priest or a politician.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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"if you could just admit when you make a mistake"

I will...

But what you have mentioned seems to me your ignorance of what I am saying. You repeat what I wrote and think it is all fine. I see no mistake. I see my message and I see you unable to see it for yourself. I figure God has not opened your eyes and so I leave it to the Holy Spirit.

Shalom Otto
 
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JacktheCatholic

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How can it NOT be metaphor if He isn't literaly handing Peter real keys?

Jesus is handing him the Power of the Keys. The Authority of his Kingdom. The Keys are a SYMBOL.
 
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Rick Otto

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Main Entry: met·a·phor
1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money); broadly : figurative language -- compare [SIZE=-1]SIMILE[/SIZE]
2 : an object, activity, or idea treated as a metaphor : SYMBOL 2

Your denial of your mistake & ignorance is becoming embarassingly hilarious, Jack.

First you you can't admit you were wrong that "keys" is plural in Matt16:19,
& now you can't admit that symbol & metaphor are the same thing, because you'd have to admit you're wrong about that too.

Albion was right, you take yourself too seriously, & it is at your own expense as well the expense of those you claim to defend.

Remain Catholic. Your arguments are an outstanding example of why not to be one.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Metaphor and Symbol are synonymous. Not always the same.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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It's clear that the autority to bind and loose sin is given to all the Apostles. And that authority was transferable. (See ACTS 1)

Forgive me...

Transferrable...

Yep.
 
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