• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

What are the Holes in Evolution?

Baggins

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
4,789
474
At Sea
✟22,482.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Labour
AHA!! on the final insects in the lineage no longer looking like flies!

And yet they would still be modified flies, and to a biologist this would be obvious in their morphology and DNA. You are a modified monkey, you may think you look entirely different to a monkey, but to an intelligent alien you would look almost identical.


Hold on to that idea and you will have grasped something that most creationists never seem to grasp.
 
Reactions: Atheuz
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,270
52,669
Guam
✟5,159,953.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It has been argued that there are holes in the theory of evolution. I, and others, would like to hear what these holes are?

Here are four holes that can't be plugged.
 
Upvote 0

MrGoodBytes

Seeker for life, probably
Mar 4, 2006
5,868
286
✟30,272.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Here are four holes that can't be plugged.
You don't even believe point 1 yourself (you're not a YEC, are you?) and unless you give us an objective reason to believe what the Bible says, the rest of your points are moot.
 
Reactions: Atheuz
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,270
52,669
Guam
✟5,159,953.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
...and unless you give us an objective reason to believe what the Bible says, the rest of your points are moot.

For what, about the 10[sup]th[/sup] time?

Try objective prophecy.
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Here are four holes that can't be plugged.
They are only holes if one assumes the Bible is literally true. Since there is no justification for such an assumption, the holes do not exist.

I challange you, AV1611VET, to justify your implicit claim that the Bible is literally true.
 
Upvote 0

Inan3

Veteran Saint
Jul 22, 2007
3,376
88
West of the Mississippi
✟27,875.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

And to a C/C any modification would be the outcome of the original divine design. But still the orginal was created a fly! And if it had any modifications it would still be a fly or extinct, that is, an extinct fly because it died off as each modification caused it to depreciate further. I am NOT a modified monkey. I am from Adam who was created in the likeness and image of God. In one day he was created a man by God and the monkeys were also, created monkeys. Not only DO I look differently than a monkey, I am different than a monkey. Well, if there were such things as intelligent aliens (you surprise me, Baggins) then the only way I would look like a monkey to "it" is if their vision were severely impaired!
 
Upvote 0

TheOutsider

Pope Iason Ouabache the Obscure
Dec 29, 2006
2,747
202
Indiana
✟26,428.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
We are closer to apes than any other animal. There are more similarities than differences. Our genomes match up more than 90%. Why do you believe that it is an insult to be related to gorillas and chimps?
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Well then you should get another "plug" labeled correctly.
The holes only exist under the assumption that the Bible is true. The plug, therefore, is that the Bible is wrong.
The question then becomes: is the Bible true, and if so, why?
 
Upvote 0

Inan3

Veteran Saint
Jul 22, 2007
3,376
88
West of the Mississippi
✟27,875.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We are closer to apes than any other animal. There are more similarities than differences. Our genomes match up more than 90%. Why do you believe that it is an insult to be related to gorillas and chimps?

Because I am like God not apes. We were created in God's image to become the sons of God. Not angels, not animals but sons of the living God. We are like God.
 
Upvote 0

TheOutsider

Pope Iason Ouabache the Obscure
Dec 29, 2006
2,747
202
Indiana
✟26,428.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Because I am like God not apes. We were created in God's image to become the sons of God. Not angels, not animals but sons of the living God. We are like God.
Two things I would like you to define:
1) Animal
2) Ape

I would also like you to explain why humans do not fall in either category. Something other than "The Bible says so," please.
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Two things I would like you to define:
1) Animal
2) Ape

I would also like you to explain why humans do not fall in either category. Something other than "The Bible says so," please.
I second this request.
 
Upvote 0

Inan3

Veteran Saint
Jul 22, 2007
3,376
88
West of the Mississippi
✟27,875.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I've split if off into another thread. I doubt Inan3 will try to answer it anyways.

http://foru.ms/t6144429-definition-of-ape.html#post39061237

You know what they say pout and doubt and go with out BUT in this case because you are special TO I will meet you over there! I had already started answering it anyway but then I got some kind of glitch and had to shut down and come back up again, only to return to this doubting post. tisk tisk tisk
 
Upvote 0

FishFace

Senior Veteran
Jan 12, 2007
4,535
169
36
✟20,630.00
Faith
Atheist

Apparently, God looks like a monkey. Have a look at the taxonomy of a human:

  1. Homo - Human
  2. Hominidiae - Great apes
  3. Hominoidea - Apes
  4. Catarrhini - Old World Monkeys
  5. Haplorrhini - Simians
  6. Primates
  7. Eutheria - Placental mammals
  8. Theria - Mammals bearing live young
  9. Mammalia - Mammals
  10. Amniotes
  11. Tetrapods - Four-legged animals
  12. Vertebrates
  13. Chordates
  14. Animals
  15. Eukaryotes
You are claiming that a fly will always be a fly. Yes, this is true. And a human will always be a human - but that human will also always be an ape, a simian, a primate, a placental mammal, a livebearer, a mammal, an amniote, a tetrapod, a vertebrate, a chordate, an animal and a eukaryote.

The fly never stops being a fly, even if it eventually looks completely different. That's how evolution and taxonomy works.

In one day he was created a man by God and the monkeys were also, created monkeys. Not only DO I look differently than a monkey, I am different than a monkey.

You are so similar to a monkey that you could have a blood transfusion with one. Well, a chimp, anyway. You are so similar that you can teach it a portion of your language. You both have a social structure, you both use tools, you are both intelligent.
You are focusing on the differences, when those differences pale into insignificance if you consider the similarities.

Well, if there were such things as intelligent aliens (you surprise me, Baggins) then the only way I would look like a monkey to "it" is if their vision were severely impaired!

If you sat next to a chimp, and you sat facing an alsatian and a chihuahua, which looks most similar? You and the chimp.

Yet you accept that the the dogs are the same species! You say a fly will always be a fly, does that mean that you accept that these chaps are related:






They look completely different! That is, if you concentrate on the differences. Of course, they both have wings, they both have a chitinous exoskeleton, they both have six legs... But chimps and humans share much more.

And of course, if you want to claim chimps are not related to humans, you ignore swathes of incontrovertible genetic evidence such as human chromosome 2, which can only be explained by common ancestry.
 
Upvote 0