christianmomof3 said:
Actually, I think that the part about the angel in Tobit is the story that is most like what is shown in movies etc... of angels pretending to be human. In other instances in the Old Testament, the angels appear in human form, but I don't recall them ascending in front of them or interacting with them for as long as the one did in Tobit. I think that the angels appearing as men concept may be largely based on Tobit and probably other writings that I have not read as well. I was a bit confused about that angel because it seemed he was lying about his name and family. Is that correct?
I guess that is a fair question I will have to ponder. That being said, it is also true (as you say) that in other OT stories some angels appear as human (like the three "visitors" who show up at Abraham's tent and Sarah feeds them dinner, etc...) - one could say that they were being deceitful to Sarah for not identifying themselves as angels...kind of like a white lie of ommission???
In any case, the story of Tobit is told in a style of writing that is more along the lines of a myth - much like parables are "stories" that are told for the purpose of teaching deeper truths even if the stories themselves are not written like a history textbook. In this case I do not mean to say that a myth is equal to something false or untrue. Rather, it is something that is true that is explained in poetic language.
On another note --
As I was reading back on what you and I have discussed so far, it occured to me that I should clarify one other thing.
You were wondering if Catholicism bases its teachings on both the Bible and "other" books (presumably the writings of the Early Church fathers). Well....we certainly do look to the Early Church writings to help us to understand God's Revelation a bit deeper...but...we do not view them as Inspired or Inerrant. We find value in them only when what they write about has an organic connection to the Apostolic Deposit of Faith. They are helpful because they are much closer in time to the Apostles than we are. In some cases, some of the Church fathers were actual disciples of the Apostles themselves (e.g. Clement, Ignatious, Polycarp, etc...) and were even ordained directly by the Apostles to their ministry. Therefore what they have to say holds great weight as far as what we know about the beliefs of those who learned at the feet of the Apostles. But many Church fathers were also trying to wrestle with understanding the faith and to develop things deeper as new questions arose (as they always do - insert here the modern bioethical questions of cloning etc...). And in so doing they didn't always agree on anything and sometimes a few fathers were wrong on a few things. But the overall "consensus of the fathers" is very much a part of our teachings.
The Bible isn't always explicit on things and therefore how we come to understand God's Will and Revelation is largely dependent on maintaining and developing this organic connection to the teachings of the Apostles. Therefore, Catholic teaching does not come "from" these writings, but rather our teachings come from the Apostles themselves (what we call the "Apostolic Traditions") - ALTHOUGH - some of these teachings are found in a much more primitive form that what we see today. That's why doctrines like the Trinity, for example, weren't *defined* in a developed sense until the third and fourth centuries. Is there an organic connection between our modern definition of the Trinity and what the Apostles taught in the Bible? YES. Is this definition EXPLICITLY found in the Bible? No. If it was, there would have been no controversies in the first place.
Also you might find this thread to be of some interest (or it might bore you to tears)...in any case...we talk in this thread a bit about the seven books and if the Church has always viewed them to be Inspired Scripture or not. My posts start somewhere around post #23, but there is a lot of interesting discussion throughout. Here it is:
http://www.christianforums.com/t3024507-catholics-and-the-bible.html&page=3
Hope that helps.
God's Peace,
NewMan
