What are satan's plans?

[holeinone]

Of course God is omnicient! But the questions you ask just take you round and round in circles! God is God and no, He cannot violate His nature. But just because He knows something is gonna happen, doesn't make Him happy about it, or mean that He planned it. That is the beauty of free will!

No, either God is omniscient or He is not. That is not "circular reasoning. If He is omniscient then he created Lucifer knowing that Lucifer would rebel. He ordained that Lucifer be created in such a way that he would desire and choose to rebel.

If this was not His plan or His desire then Lucifer could have been created differently.


God could have planned to put Lucifer in hell right away, but instead God placed him in the garden with the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, knowing that Eve would be deceived by the serpent and that Adam would do as his wife bid him.

Satan can do nothing that God does not ordain or permit .
There is only ONE God and his name is not Satan. Satan must submit to the will of God. That is why he sits at the throne off God . And like all of Gods creation shows forth the glory and power of God.

When you read Revelation notice that nothing about the relationship between God and Satan has changed. Yet God tells us exactly what he intends to do with Satan. He could have done it immediately, but instead God has His own time for that. Revelations is not a guess, that is Gods ordained plan and Satan is subject to it.
Prophecy is God telling us in advance what HE PLANS TO DO. God foreknows because God plans it and ordains it. That is how he is able to work out all things together for the good of those that love him and are called according to his purposes.


If God can not violate His nature can you violate yours? What is the nature of men since the fall? "Can a leopard change his spots?"

Do you have more free will than God does? If God can not violate His nature can man will himself to violate his?

Can you cite for me ONE incident in scripture that Satan acted that was not a part of Gods ordained plan?

God created man and everything else, for His pleasure!

Isaiah 43:1-7

But now, thus says the Lord, your creator, O Jacob, and He who formed you, O Israel, "Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine! When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, nor will the flame burn you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place. Since you are precious in My sight, since you are honored and I love you, I will give other men in your place and other peoples in exchange for your life. Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring My sons from afar, and My daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by My name, and whom I have created for My glory, whom I have formed even whom I have made"


Isaiah 43:20-21 "I give water in the wilderness, rivers in the desert to give drink to my chosen people, the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise."


Isaiah 44:23 says, "Sing, O heavens for the Lord has done it; shout, O depths of the earth; break forth into singing, O mountains, O forest and every tree in it! For the Lord has redeemed Jacob and will be glorified in Israel."

1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


God did not make man because he was lonely, or because he needed someone to love him, or because he needed a gardner or because he wanted to be amused by the decisions of his creation.

God created men to show forth His glory. God acted so men would know that He was God.

God is sovereign over every one of his creations, nature, man angels, demons and satan.

If you are interested in scripture on this I will be glad to share some with you. But God has never said that he is not sovereign. The bible does not teach an unfettered free will in men, that is the truth that glorifies God not men !

 

[holeinone]

Yes, god has the same free will.
God just created a gardner. Man isn't as special as he thinks, but most people have an inferiority complex.
Elaborate with what you mean by "violate his nature".

What is the nature of God? Can you list his attributes as taught to us in scripture?

1. The Solitariness of God
2. The Decrees of God
3. The Knowledge of God
4. The Foreknowledge of God
5. The Supremacy of God
6. The Sovereignty of God
7. The Immutability of God
8. The Holiness of God
9. The Power of God
10. The Faithfulness of God
11. The Goodness of God
12. The Patience of God
13. The Grace of God
14. The Mercy of God
15. The Love of God
16. The Wrath of God
17. The Contemplation of God

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Attributes/attributes.htm
​

Can God violate those attributes that make him God and stay God?

 

[holeinone]

Satan and the Angelic Conflict...........

Before man existed there were, and still are, billions of heavenly creatures identifies as "angels". These creatures are vastly superior to man in every way. They have bodies of light and an extremely well developed intellect, and they live in the very presence of God in Heaven. There are many other characteristics of this creature which we will not examine here, but suffice it to say that angels are only creatures, as we are, and yet they were endowed with natural attributes which far surpass even the greatest of men.

By the way, "angel" is derived from a Greek word which means "messenger", and we can trace the purpose for this name back to the fact that God many times has employed these superior creatures in communicating with us. Other angels have specific jobs related to man which God has assigned them, such as our guardians. But "angel" is a word which only came into use with the advent of man, and we do not know what this race of beings were called before that time. Although this is assumption on my part, I feel secure in stating it because there was nobody to communicate with prior to man, thus there was no logical purpose for a messenger. At any rate, they are called angels now.

The most glorious of these creatures was one called Lucifer, Son of the Morning.

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"(Isa:14:12)

Lucifer was a class of angel called "cherub", which was the highest ranking class of angel, and he was the the highest of all Cherubs, for his appointed station was God's "Anointed Cherub", and his office was standing watch at the "Holy Mountain".

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." (Ezek:28:14)
There is little in the Bible that explains exactly what Lucifer's duties consisted of, but enough to establish the fact that his was an exalted position among the angelic civilization. He is also described as the most beautiful creature ever to come from God's hand. The verse, below, is a description of an angel with skin that reflected the many faceted hues of various gem stones under intense light, and a voice with mesmerizing resonance. Add to his breathtaking beauty an intellect that can only be described as multi-genius, and powers second only to God, Himself.

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy voice were prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created." (Ezek:28:13)

But Lucifer's beauty worked a terrible hardship on him, by his own volition, for he was overcome by the lust to exalt himself, and even to seize the ruling power over God's kingdom.

Scripture on this please

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the angels of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:" (Ezek:14:13)

"By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy conduct; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
(Ezek:28:16-18)

God was forced to deal with this insurrection, and He did so. But before He judged Lucifer, knowing that millions of other angels actually sympathized with Lucifer, God presented the question to the angels in His world, "Which will you follow; Satan or Me?", and a third of all the creatures in heaven lined up behind the devil. They, too, were beguiled by his superior beauty and intelligence. We aren't told how many angels fell with Lucifer, but they were very likely in the billions.

Scripture on this please.

In effect, this situation paralleled our own dilemma, in that angels had to choose for or against God. Although the mechanics of our salvation are far different that the angelic path to deliverance, for there was no Savior as we have, the identical issue was at the heart of the matter; The exercise of our volition to either humble ourselves before our Creator, or defy Him.

Thus, a dramatic event took place, a "trial" we will call it, in which Satan (translated as "lawyer for the defense"),

Scripture on this please.

and his billions of followers, were sentenced to the lake of fire and brimstone. But the arrogant leader of the heavenly rebellion had no intention of accepting his fate meekly, for he challenged the ruling of the Almighty, and a conflict began which has continued to this very momen

God accepted Satan's challenge,
and His answer was the human race.

Scripture supporting this please

In effect, what God did was to place His very existence in the hands of mankind, as it were, and His ruling went something like this; "I will create a new race of beings, inferior in every way to the angels, and we will let THEM decide if your sentence is just and fitting, or if I am, as you charge, not a Just and Loving God."

Scripture on this please

Here we have the undercurrent of all human history, and a the core function of our existence; When you remove all the side issues, distractions, and peripheral circumstances, there is one single issue at work in history The struggle between good and evil
Virtually every decision you make is, one way or another, is a choice for one or the other. Granted, the distinctions are many times blurred, but this is in keeping with the nature of this titanic conflagration.

On the one hand you have Satan, "The Father of Lies", whose modus operandi is deceit, misdirection and propaganda. His strategy was made clear in the garden when he seduced woman into disobeying God. There is nothing direct or unobscured in Satan's system. He plays to the old sin nature, man's flaws and weaknesses, to affect his plans. Our lusts are his greatest ally, and he uses his genius to discredit God, through our actions, whenever and wherever possible.

The creature we're dealing with is extremely powerful, and evil beyond anything we can imagine. Add to this ominous reality that he loathes the human race. His contempt of us is an obsession. In his immense arrogance he is the epitome of prejudice, hatred, premeditated malice. We are bugs he is pleased to step on, and the only humans that prosper in his system are those that he can use. In Satan's eyes, we are an invention of God designed to establish his malfeasance, and make good God's ruling.

Do you have scripture on this?

The devil has no concern for our welfare or safety. Any devious act is justified, in his view, to win this conflict at our expense. What do you suppose would become of us if Satan were to win? He would wipe us out in a heart beat!His contempt for us is manifest in what my pastor calls the season of "The devil's desperation", known to us as the Tribulation. All other avenues exhausted, having come to a dead end, the devil and his minions will resort to the only method left to them, violence. This is arrogance stripped bare, visible for all to see, and it works the same in human beings, when persuasion and propaganda fail, and all the dirty tricks do not yield a satisfactory result, it turns to intimidation, fear. When man will not respond favorably, cooperate with him, Satan will play his last hole card. Thus the Trib will be a horrifying season on this planet.

All of Satan's most vile practitioners, like General Abadon (at present incarcerated in the abyss) and his legions, will roam the earth, killing men at will. Even the remotest sign of defiance, and men will die. The Trib will be much like a movie plot, so ghastly, so perilous that we cannot imagine it.

Do you have scripture on this?

It is a reasonable question to wonder, since God is all knowing and perfect Justice, why did He allow the devil to prevail in this matter of an appeal? There is no question that God knows the outcome of this foolishness, and He is the absolute good and right, and He acts according to His eternal nature, which is to say that He doesn't waver in His judgements. Once God declares a thing, it stands forever.



Of course, there is a logical answer to this question, and as always, it reveals that our God is thinking of His beloved creatures first, before Himself. You see, it is for the sake of the elect angels, those that remained faithful to Him, that he permitted Satan to argue an appeal. They, and the elect, the persons of the human race than accept God's love and receive salvation.

(cont)

I would be interested in the source of this as most is conjecture like a fairy tale.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No response to my post #38?

 

[holeinone]

Your question: "Could God not have created Satan in a way that he would choose not to fall?"

The answer is: Of course He could have. But if God had created Satan in that fashion, then Satan would not actually have had any choice in the matter, and Lucifer would not have fallen, and actually that is just what you are trying to peddle.

So we might say that God willed the fall of Satan, if He created Satan is such a way that Satan would be overcome with pride and rebel, then he ordained the rebellion by creating Lucifer in such a way that he would fall.

True love cannot be coerced; if God preordained that some would love Him, but a far, far greater number of the human race would either embroil themselves in a pagan religion, or athieistic beliefs, or pedophilia, or perhaps what we see going on now in the Islamic world, where those who profess to be the true followers of Allah are beheading each other on a daily basis.... etc., etc.

If Yahweh actually preordained all of the above, plus all of the horrible sickness, starvation, and other degeneracy so prevelent in this fallen world in which we live, then the Scripture that makes the plain statement of fact that "God is LOVE."... is a lie that God Himself perpetrated.

God ordained the most horrific crime in all civilization and we say that was love.

The sin of men is responsible for the world we live in, man is fully responsible for it, yet it is all within the ordained plan of God.

What does Romans tell us?

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

What you see around you in the world today is a result of God giving man over to his corrupted nature. God does not have to cause these things directly, that is what is in the unregenerate heart . Man is fully responsible for doing exactly what he wills to do

Do you not see the logical fallacy of the Great White Throne Judgement if those who appear there had no other options than to carry out the Judge's pre-ordained command that they carry out exactly what they will be judged for?

Actually, the judgement for their sins (and yours and mine) has already been carried out at Calvary. Those who appear at the Great White Throne will be judged for their works; none of which will be found to be sufficient to pay their sin debt. And then they will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire, which Scripture informs us was not meant for humans. As Matthew 25:41 puts it...

"Then He (the Son of Man, the Judge) will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

I agree that the sheep were always the sheep and the goats always the goats. The Judgment will be ones of rewards and punishment not salvation or damnation.

To swallow pre-determinism, means that it was absolutely unnecessary for Christ to go to the Cross, for the destiny of all of humanity had already been irrevocably decided by the Trinity in eternity past.

No the cross was the plan of salvation laid down before the foundation of the earth. It was the foreordained means,it declared God's righteousness, it exalted God's grace, it revealed God's consistency and it confirmed God's Word.

And, what was Christ's motivation for having come in the flesh; having been "...tempted in all points as we are..."; having suffered the taunts of men; and far more seriously, having been the recipient of the Father's wrath? If all of the above was already irrevocably pre-determined? Was He just wasting time?? Don't think so!

Why would you assume that any Calvinist would disagree with this?
There was a covenant between the Father and the Son before the foundation of the earth, that was the covenant of redemption . The cross of Christ is the ordained means of salvation. Men must repent and come to the cross to be saved.
As Christians we all hold that as a foundational truth

Forgive me for stretching this out a bit, but it is crucial to a proper understanding of the love of our Saviour, and as an encouragement to do evangelism. Am aware of the excuses used by 5 pointers to support evangelism, but if there is no choice as far as the hearers go, then evangelism is a sham and a fraud.

Some of the most famous and successful evangelists in history have come out of the Reformation.
What they knew was that some planted the seeds and some watered BUT God gave the increase.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

The success of the gospel is not dependent on the power of persuasion of the speaker or his clever words or a stirring service. it is not dependent on one being smart enough to know a good choice or clever enough to outwit satan. The success of the gospel is solely dependent on the grace of God

Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But... Hallelujah to Jeshua, as His people share the gospel honestly, the Holy Spirit often finds an opening in some of the hardest hearts.

Correction, the Holy Spirit MAKES an opening in the hardest hearts, I know he did mine.

Act 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

Shalom... WAB

p.s. Your last question... "Why did God create man?" is a good one. The logical answer per 5 point Calvinism is that He created man in order to condemn the vast majority of them to eternal torment. How's that for love?

How about God is glorified in His work in men.
he is glorified in his justice and his wrath as well as in His love and mercy.

BTW Mercy is meaningless if one does not know the justice and wrath he is getting mercy from.

It is time that all of God be glorified, not just the little piece of him men like to contemplate

 

[Nanee5]

Why would you assume that any Calvinist would disagree with this?
There was a covenant between the Father and the Son before the foundation of the earth, that was the covenant of redemption . The cross of Christ is the ordained means of salvation. Men must repent and come to the cross to be saved.
As Christians we all hold that as a foundational truth

I don't see how that you can believe this, yet believe that not all who hear the Gospel can be saved by it. By your terms, only those God forordained to be saved may be saved. Everyone else is just out in the cold, no matter if they choose to believe or not. My bible says that whosoever believes.. it does not say that whosoever God ordains believes.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Satan wants us all to return to nothing....

Forgive me....

 

[holeinone]

I don't see how that you can believe this, yet believe that not all who hear the Gospel can be saved by it. By your terms, only those God forordained to be saved may be saved. Everyone else is just out in the cold, no matter if they choose to believe or not. My bible says that whosoever believes.. it does not say that whosoever God ordains believes.

All that HEAR the gospel and come will be saved.

But Jesus said that HE hides the gospel form some that do not hear it with spiritual ears.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?


Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given



Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.


Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:


Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Mat 13:16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.




Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].

The word blessed means highly favored. They heard because THEY WERE HIGHLY FAVORED

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:[/color] for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[holeinone]

I don't see how that you can believe this, yet believe that not all who hear the Gospel can be saved by it. By your terms, only those God forordained to be saved may be saved. Everyone else is just out in the cold, no matter if they choose to believe or not. My bible says that whosoever believes.. it does not say that whosoever God ordains believes.

BUT IT DOES say EXACTLY THAT

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

WHO believed? THOSE THAT WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE


Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

[Nanee5]

BUT IT DOES say EXACTLY THAT

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

WHO believed? THOSE THAT WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE


Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

I am referring to John 3:16-17....

 

[holeinone]

I am referring to John 3:16-17....

As many as believe are saved, the question is who will hear and believe. Who's ears will God open?

Do you want to ignore other scripture so you can support what you believe or do you want to believe what scripture says?

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:


Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.



Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God



What do you think Jesus meant when he said they did not have ears to hear?


What does Jesus mean here?

Jhn 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.


Jhn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

Why?



Why do some men not believe the gospel? It is spiritual discerned not carnally. Unless God opens your ears it is just foolishness.

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


1Cr 1:18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Can we praise God that He is the source of our salvation from the beginning to the end?
He opened our ears to hear the gospel, He changed our hearts to receive it and desire it. Salvation is 100% of God

 

[InnocentOdion]

Eck... all of the colours and bold plays with my eyes.

All I can say is Jesus spoke in riddles and stories, so we have to sit and think about them, ears but do not hear, I think, means ignorant of the gospel.

Some men don't believe the gospel because their hearts are hard. Only God can open their souls, but man will try to help.

 

[holeinone]

Eck... all of the colours and bold plays with my eyes.

All I can say is Jesus spoke in riddles and stories, so we have to sit and think about them, ears but do not hear, I think, means ignorant of the gospel.

Some men don't believe the gospel because their hearts are hard. Only God can open their souls, but man will try to help.

The purpose of parables was to HIDE the gospel, not to reveal it


Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?


Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

 

[InnocentOdion]

The purpose of parables was to HIDE the gospel, not to reveal it


Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?


Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

That's why I said sit and think about them. To uncover the gospel, to find the truth. If it's completely hidden, we would, will or have already become lost.

 

[holeinone]

That's why I said sit and think about them. To uncover the gospel, to find the truth. If it's completely hidden, we would, will or have already become lost.

The Bible says that if God does not give you understanding, no matter how hard you "think" you will never get it.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[InnocentOdion]

The Bible says that if God does not give you understanding, no matter how hard you "think" you will never get it.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

True.
We can only pray for understanding if that is the case.

Luke 11:10 - For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

 

[holeinone]

True.
We can only pray for understanding if that is the case.

Luke 11:10 - For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

A wise man once told me to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding when we read the word.

 

[InnocentOdion]

A wise man once told me to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding when we read the word.

Definitley. That is asking, as is said in the Bible.

 

[Nanee5]

Definitley. That is asking, as is said in the Bible.

Exactly!

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Yes, in the natural, we cannot comprehend spiritual things, but in the Spirit, (by the Holy Spirit) WE CAN!

I would not want to serve the God that holeinone speaks of, because if God is that sadistic as to have a Gospel, just to hide it from people, so that no one can believe, except those He chooses, I might as well turn to Budhism or something else.

 

[holeinone]

Exactly!



Yes, in the natural, we cannot comprehend spiritual things, but in the Spirit, (by the Holy Spirit) WE CAN!

I would not want to serve the God that holeinone speaks of, because if God is that sadistic as to have a Gospel, just to hide it from people, so that no one can believe, except those He chooses, I might as well turn to Budhism or something else.

Does the Holy Spirit indwell unsaved men?