What are 7th day adventists?

[Elder 111]

He said he came to fulfill.

Romans 3:19-31


When it says "we uphold the law", it's referring to the verse where Christ says he came to fulfill the law. The law that points to the gospel. So by seeing we are sinners and then being pointed to the gospel by our knowledge of our sin (though the law) we are keeping the law intact. It never went away, but it is not there to "abide by" for our salvation.

As Christians we strive to live in the Spirit. As humans, we have a sinful nature and are incapable of doing good. This is why salvation must come through faith.

You have said that we have a knowledge of sin through the law. On that basic alone it would be stupid to say that the law is abolish for Paul himself asked, how would he know sin if there were no law? the law is not the means of salvation but because we have salvation in and by Christ we will live like Him, and He kept the law. Can I call myself a chrisrian and be a thief? No! Is that not keeping the law?

 

[Elder 111]

Abraham is used as the example of faith. Did he not by that faith do works? Did he not by believing leave his home and move to where he knew not? Am I now to believe that I would have faith and do no works? How then would I be like the example?
The works is not a means of salvation but a sign of obedience. A sign of salvation.

 

[Elder 111]

Actually, the meaning of Romans 3:31 is much simpler than that. The law that Paul upholds is quoted a few verses later, and it is from that we can determine what law is established. Remember, the chapter breaks in our English Bibles don't accurately reflect the paragraphs one would determine in the original manuscripts.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. 1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
​

The law established is the Genesis record, shown by the quote from Genesis 15:6. It is that historical record that shows that righteousness is imputed by faith in God, and not by works according to the law mediated by Moses that didn't even exist for another 430 years after this account.

Some of the meanings of to establish are immovable, stand firm and set. The record shows that faith is the means of righteousness but that law is required to be kept. Does it not? Is that not what is shown from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

 

[Aibrean]

Like I said - it's a brick-wall conversation.

If you want to live by the law, you will die by the law.

 

[VictorC]

Some of the meanings of to establish are immovable, stand firm and set. The record shows that faith is the means of righteousness but that law is required to be kept. Does it not? Is that not what is shown from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

The claim that the "law is required to be kept" is an addition you made to the message conveyed in Romans 4 that isn't there. How do you keep the law's historical record? You're assigning a verb denoting action where it doesn't make sense. The author establishes the law that shows that righteousness doesn't come by works, but by faith in God's ability to perform as God promised.

20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God,
21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform.
22 And therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness."​

 

[Husky7]

Thank you guys for the replies and the information, it is nice to get first-hand feedback from people with a background actually knowing the Adventist beliefs. I will have to look into it more, because so far, some of the things about it I really think are great, but some I disagree with.

The only thing I don't like about the SDA is that they believe in this Ellen G. White as a modern day prophet. I disagree with this belief in the SDA church.

 

[BlackSabb]

Adventist will not contradict any of Mrs. White's doctrinal statements. I have a real problem with a church who thinks they have a special messager from God who is their interpreter of Scripture.

They are quite law oriented, beliving we can lose our salvation by not following the laws given to Moses and the Children of Israel. Go to the Progressive or Traditional Seventh Day Adventist section here under "Faith Groups" if you really want to find out more.

Edit to add: I was raised SDA.

They also believe that only they are saved and that all other Christian denominations are eternally lost. They believe that all Christians who worship on Sunday (or any day other than Saturday) show the sign of the mark of the beast and therefore are worshipping the beast. And that the sign of God's remnant people are those that observe the Saturday sabbath.

Don't believe me? Well go to the progressive/moderate Adventist section and read the new SDA president's first sermon. I'll save you the trouble, here it is for you:


Ted Wilson's first sermon as president . . .
I read online the text of a sermon attributed to the new GC president. Here are a few excepts. Would you agree each of these statements?

With the power of His truth, God has carved out of this chaotic world the Seventh-day Adventist Church. We are to be a peculiar people, God’s remnant people.

The observance of the Sabbath is not only a sign of His creatorship in the beginning but will be THE sign of God’s people in the last days in contrast to those with the mark of the beast representing an attempt to keep holy a day which God has not set apart as holy.

If you worship the beast and his image you are rejecting THE one sign God has proclaimed as His test of allegiance……..the seventh-day Sabbath.

The Spirit of Prophecy is one of the identifying marks of God’s last-day people and is just as applicable today as ever before because it was given to us by heaven itself. As God’s faithful remnant, may we never make of none effect the precious light given us in the writings
of Ellen G. White.

Do not succumb to the mistaken idea, gaining support even in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, of accepting worship or evangelistic outreach methods merely because they are new and “trendy.” Look WITHIN the Seventh-day Adventist Church to humble pastors, evangelists, Biblical scholars, leaders, and departmental directors who can provide evangelistic methods and programs that are based on solid Biblical principles and “The Great Controversy Theme.”

Don’t succumb to fanatical or loose theology that wrests God’s Word from the pillars of Biblical truth and the landmark beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
​

 

[VictorC]

I wasn't sure where to post this really, so hopefully here is okay, but I am curious what a 7th day adventist is and what they believe? I posted something recently that someone said was an "adventist" type of opinion, and I did not know what that meant at all. I would love to hear an answer from someone who is one personally, but either way I am curious to know, thanks everyone!

I'm not sure if you're still checking the responses on this thread that you started, so maybe the questions you had have been answered to your satisfaction. I am curious about what it was that you posted, that someone else regarded as an Adventist opinion.

 

[heritage36]

It was my views on hell if I recall correctly that they said seemed aligned with Adventist beliefs, and talking to a few Adventists, I think that was correct. I am not saying I believe all their beliefs, as I do not even know all their beliefs, but I can see a few I agree with already. I will say that I think they get a bad rep for the whole following the law thing. I mean, nothing that was practiced in the law then that can be practiced still now are bad things at all it doesn't seem.

 

[VictorC]

It was my views on hell if I recall correctly that they said seemed aligned with Adventist beliefs, and talking to a few Adventists, I think that was correct. I am not saying I believe all their beliefs, as I do not even know all their beliefs, but I can see a few I agree with already. I will say that I think they get a bad rep for the whole following the law thing. I mean, nothing that was practiced in the law then that can be practiced still now are bad things at all it doesn't seem.

You had previously showed concern over Ellen White's status as a prophet in the SDA church, but you never commented on the relationship she alleged between the law ordained in the first covenant with Adventism's model of salvation. I posted this before:

Ellen White is codified as Adventism's authority in their Fundamental Belief #18 (of 28 beliefs published by the church at this time). Here are some statement from Ellen White to give you a sense of Adventism's soteriology. Redemption remains a foreign concept to Adventism, and dismisses the purpose Jesus was incarnate, "to redeem those who were under the law" (Galatians 4:5):

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

“God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient!” (Review & Herald, Sept. 21, 1886)

"Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life—the same condition that was required of Adam before his Fall. The Lord expects no less of the soul now than He expected of man in Paradise, perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden—harmony with God’s law, which is holy, just, and good." (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 391)

“He told them that he had been pleading with his Father, and had offered to give his life a ransom, and take the sentence of death upon himself, that through him man might find pardon; that through the merits of his blood, and obedience to the law of God, they could have the favor of God, and be brought into the beautiful garden, and eat of the fruit of the tree of life.” (1SP 45.1)

“Your only safety is in coming to Christ, and ceasing from sin this very moment. The sweet voice of mercy is sounding in your ears today, but who can tell if it will sound tomorrow?" (Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1892).

“Only by perfect obedience to the requirements of God's holy law can man be justified.” (Manuscript Releases, vol. 8, pp. 98-99)

"Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement" (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 214).

“While God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins, or neglecting known duties” (1 Selected Messages, p. 366).

"To every one who surrenders fully to God is given the privilege of living without sin, in obedience to the law of heaven." "God requires of us perfect obedience. We are to purify ourselves, even as he is pure. By keeping his commandments, we are to reveal our love for the Supreme Ruler of the universe." (Review and Herald, September 27, 1906).

"The righteousness of God is absolute. This righteousness characterizes all His works, all His laws. As He is, so must His people be." (1 Selected Messages, p. 198)​

Compliance to the law God redeemed us from is the basis of Adventism's claim to eternal life: you need to stop sinning and keep the law God redeemed us from. That is a stark contrast to Galatians 4:30, telling us to cast off the bondwoman defined as the covenant from Mount Sinai (4:24), which was the ten commandments, "for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman". Those remaining unredeemed from the covenant from Mount Sinai don't have a valid claim to eternal life.

 

[heritage36]

I did not know that was true if that is indeed what they believe, that only through the law can one be saved, that would seem then that salvation would be impossible, as much of "the law" of those times is impossible when not near or in Jeruselem, and some of the necessary activities such as animal sacrifices are not even allowed by current governments. I do firmly believe that we recieve salvation through Christ, and only through Christ.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I did not know that was true if that is indeed what they believe, that only through the law can one be saved, that would seem then that salvation would be impossible, as much of "the law" of those times is impossible when not near or in Jeruselem, and some of the necessary activities such as animal sacrifices are not even allowed by current governments. I do firmly believe that we recieve salvation through Christ, and only through Christ.

Adventist do not believe we are saved by law but by grace through faith. But guess what will cause us to be lost... Sin. Every single person has sin but those who will be saved would be those who accept Jesus Christ, confess their sins and take up their cross daily and follow him. What is sin? Sin is the transgression of the law. So those who do not confess their transgression of the law and allow Jesus to take away their transgression of the law will not be saved.

But the reality is that no one has a problem with the commandments save the Sabbath. It is the Sabbath that everyone wants gone. Take a serious look at the 10 commandments and tell me which Christian would say that violating them would not be a sin. How many of them actually believe that we do not need to keep these other 9 commandments. They say the law is abolished but if they steal they will run to God and ask for forgiveness because in reality they are still keeping 9 commandments. The sabbath is the difference. That is the one everyone just wants to forget about. The only one which starts with remember. In such a case it is not a matter of breaking the sabbath and confessing your sin. It is a matter of attempting to keep it. They don't. They don't bother with the 4th commandment which is just as valid as the other 9 and in an attempt to disregard the 4th they attack all 10 but in actuality still keep the other 9. There is no other thing, but only the Sabbath can you find this multiplicity of reasons that we should not keep them. Everyone has their own reason. A pastor in my island of Grenada right here, said on the radio that Jesus rested on the Sabbath because he was tired and it was no example for us. That alone should tell you that the Sabbath is hated and people don't care what the excuse is, as long as they can find something they can hold on to for not keeping it they would go along with it.

People have for years then misrepresent what Adventist believe about the law. Accusing us of teaching that you are saved by keeping the law. That is nonsense. No one was ever saved by keeping the law. If you want to know the reason for keeping the law it is in the bible. And that reason is love.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do I keep the Sabbath out of love? Sure I do. When God created the earth he made the 7th day holy. He set that day apart at the beginning of the world for holy purpose. He commandments to keep that day holy for him. He said it is his Sabbath and its his time. I respect that because he created everything. No way does keeping the Sabbath save me, but how can i call myself a true child of God is I have no regard for his holy day. And that is what it all boils down to. The Sabbath. Because no one says that stealing was for the Jews or killing was for the Jews but all of a sudden the Sabbath was for the Jews. But look at this. The Sabbath was made before sin. It was made as the seventh day before sin was in the world. It will exist after sin has been finally dealt with.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Why do we believe that anytime during those 2 periods it will not exist or be relevant. You decide.

 

[Sophia7]

But the reality is that no one has a problem with the commandments save the Sabbath. It is the Sabbath that everyone wants gone. Take a serious look at the 10 commandments and tell me which Christian would say that violating them would not be a sin. How many of them actually believe that we do not need to keep these other 9 commandments. They say the law is abolished but if they steal they will run to God and ask for forgiveness because in reality they are still keeping 9 commandments. The sabbath is the difference. That is the one everyone just wants to forget about. The only one which starts with remember. In such a case it is not a matter of breaking the sabbath and confessing your sin. It is a matter of attempting to keep it. They don't. They don't bother with the 4th commandment which is just as valid as the other 9 and in an attempt to disregard the 4th they attack all 10 but in actuality still keep the other 9. There is no other thing, but only the Sabbath can you find this multiplicity of reasons that we should not keep them. Everyone has their own reason. A pastor in my island of Grenada right here, said on the radio that Jesus rested on the Sabbath because he was tired and it was no example for us. That alone should tell you that the Sabbath is hated and people don't care what the excuse is, as long as they can find something they can hold on to for not keeping it they would go along with it.

People have for years then misrepresent what Adventist believe about the law. Accusing us of teaching that you are saved by keeping the law. That is nonsense. No one was ever saved by keeping the law. If you want to know the reason for keeping the law it is in the bible. And that reason is love.

Is bearing false witness against other Christians a sin, or do they not qualify as "your neighbor," according to the ninth commandment? How ironic that you accuse other Christians of misrepresenting what Adventists believe in the same post that you misrepresent what other Christians believe.

 

[heritage36]

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Why do we believe that anytime during those 2 periods it will not exist or be relevant. You decide.

I admit, I agree with most of the things you are saying here, but I did not follow what you meant with this part above? Are you talking about Adventist beliefs in future time periods, or just showing that the Sabbath is still present in them?

 

[VictorC]

Adventist do not believe we are saved by law but by grace through faith.

So Ellen White wasn't representative of what an Adventist believes? Do you need to see those quotes from the Pen of Liability once again?

But the reality is that no one has a problem with the commandments save the Sabbath. It is the Sabbath that everyone wants gone.

If you choose to misrepresent the Gospel affirmed by others, doesn't that entail bearing false witness according to the first covenant ordained at Mount Sinai? And now that you become a transgressor of the entire covenant, your only beef is with the sabbath - and you ignore your own transgression that imputes sin to you and separates you from God.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I admit, I agree with most of the things you are saying here, but I did not follow what you meant with this part above? Are you talking about Adventist beliefs in future time periods, or just showing that the Sabbath is still present in them?

What I was showing is that according to Isaiah 66, the sabbath will still exist in the new heavens and new earth which shall be made after sin, death and the devil are finally destroyed.

 

[VictorC]

What I was showing is that according to Isaiah 66, the sabbath will still exist in the new heavens and new earth which shall be made after sin, death and the devil are finally destroyed.

The passage you refer to marks the passage of time in the weekly and the monthly cycles that Adventism doesn't regard as binding, and the very next verse shows corpses burning in unquenchable fire in a torment Adventism doesn't acknowledge.

Isaiah 66
22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD.
24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."​

If you are to regard the passage of time marked by cycles the recipients of this prophecy are familiar with as a reference to binding law, then you need to replace the priesthood of Jesus Christ with the Levitical priesthood authorized to continue keeping the new moon and the sabbath according to the law expressing how they are to be kept holy:

Numbers 28
1 ¶ Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
2 "Command the children of Israel, and say to them, `My offering, My food for My offerings made by fire as a sweet aroma to Me, you shall be careful to offer to Me at their appointed time.'
3 "And you shall say to them, `This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer to the LORD: two male lambs in their first year without blemish, day by day, as a regular burnt offering.
4 `The one lamb you shall offer in the morning, the other lamb you shall offer in the evening,
5 `and one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering mixed with one-fourth of a hin of pressed oil.
6 `It is a regular burnt offering which was ordained at Mount Sinai for a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the LORD.
7 `And its drink offering shall be one-fourth of a hin for each lamb; in a holy place you shall pour out the drink to the LORD as an offering.
8 `The other lamb you shall offer in the evening; as the morning grain offering and its drink offering, you shall offer it as an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the LORD.
9 ¶ `And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering--
10 `this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering.
11 `At the beginnings of your months you shall present a burnt offering to the LORD: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish...​

Add up just the lambs required, and you will find that you will need to sacrifice 75 lambs every typical month in order to comply with the law ordained at Mount Sinai and the sabbath contained therein. Those burnt offerings are mentioned in Hebrews 10 among the reasons God took that first covenant away, as well as the sabbath contained therein:

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure.
7 ¶ Then I said, `Behold, I have come----In the volume of the book it is written of Me----To do Your will, O God.'"
8 Previously saying, "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the law),
9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.​

The first covenant ordained at Mount Sinai is not compatible with the new covenant established in the Blood of Jesus Christ, our complete and sufficient propitiation that fulfilled the law and delivered us from it.

 

[heritage36]

Please stick to the topic, I asked to know about Adventists and their beliefs and practices, not for everyones critical remarks on what they think they wrongly believe. If you want to share things like that, please begin a new thread.

 

[Sophia7]

I find that there are many false beliefs and teachings in every denomination. You will find people who stray from the Scripture no matter what they claim to be; Presbyterian, Reformed, Baptist...
I am attending an Adventist Academy right at this moment. I have searched for satisfying interpretations everywhere, and have listened to many preachers, and have questioned pastors. None have given me conclusive answers. I brought my questions to our school chaplain/religion teacher, and with skepticism in my heart, listened to him. Not once in our Bible study sessions, has he even mentioned Ellen White. He derived all his answers from Scripture, and from original Greek/Hebrew translations.
I fail to see the difference between Adventists who exalt Ellen White, from many other Christians in other denominations who practically worship preachers/pastors. There will be people from every denomination that will lose their sight and walk astray, but surely that is not the sole definition of a cult? The most [argued] controversial teaching held by Adventists is probably Annihilationism. And there are actually also many many verses to back that up, especially if you examine it in the context as well as its original Greek/Hebrew definitions. It's important to not be 'single-passage Christians'. Just because there is ONE verse to back what you believe, it does not disapprove all the other 100 that go against it. I don't think many, if any of us have examined every controversial issue, and searched through the entire Bible, taking all the verses, inspected all their contexts, and other verses with corresponding contexts. From my personal experience, it's best not to criticise a denomination or a belief, even if it goes against what you originally believe, as long as its teachings are built on sufficient evidence from the Bible.

No, the most controversial doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the investigative judgment. The conditionalist view of hell (annihilationism) is not unique to Adventism, but the IJ is. No other churches teach it because the Bible doesn't teach it.

 

[heritage36]

What do you mean by "investigative judgement"? I have not heard that brought up yet at all.