What all religion are really saying is..

[JasperJackson]

It's just a feeling I have.

dingdong, is this really the extent of the reasons you have for your opinion about religions? If not, if there's something more to it can you please share that with us. What is your background? What have been your experiences with religions and/or religious people? This might help us understand where you're coming from. If you do answer this can you please refrain from broad-sweeping statements (e.g. "religions are wrong").

Different religions require you to do or perform certain rituals in order to show other people of that faith that you really do believe in that God.
For one of them you must also read and speak in 17th century English, why that is I don't know.

For your reference, here is a list of English Bible versions (you'll see there aren't too many here from the 17th century): Bible Version Chart

I would be very happy to read what other people think religion is, more than happy,
it seems it's not as simple as just believing in a God it's a lot more complicated than that.

Since you asked, I'll share what I think my religion is, pointing out that they're not all the same by far...
My religion (Christianity) is mainly about Jesus. Jesus came to Earth from Heaven for one purpose: to save humanity through his death and resurrection. We all need saving because we have all sinned and are destined for hell without Jesus. But to be saved we must have faith in Jesus because we are not capable of being good enough for God to let us into heaven otherwise. Why did God do it this way? Because he wants us to rely on him. And what this means for me now is that I am absolutely sure that my eternity will be in heaven with God, which gives me a great sense of peace and I can get on with life. Also, I need to let others know about Jesus because without faith in him they will spend eternity in hell.

 

[dingdong]

Jesus came to Earth from Heaven for one purpose: to save humanity through his death and resurrection. We all need saving because we have all sinned and are destined for hell without Jesus. But to be saved we must have faith in Jesus because we are not capable of being good enough for God to let us into heaven otherwise.

This is what I am talking about, is this delusional or what? how does a person let their brain degenerate to such a level?

 

[JasperJackson]

Hmmm, given the choices I'd have to go with "what".

No I haven't let my brain degenerate. I believe Christianity is the best explanation we have that fits the evidence of the collection of historical documents commonly known as the New Testament.

 

[humblemuslim]

This is what I am talking about, is this delusional or what? how does a person let their brain degenerate to such a level?

So this is where the fuel for your fire is coming from.

This helps me understand where you are coming from a little bit better.

Just as a side note, the belief that "We are all destined for hell" is rather at odds with the image of a perfect GOD. That is essentially saying the perfect GOD made a terrible creation. One that is fundamentally evil/bad.

If our only way to heaven is through blind faith that Jesus is saving us, which I feel is at odds with what Jesus is quoted as saying in the NT (Check out Matthew 5:17-22 for an example), then GOD is not who we believe GOD is.

 

[Wicked Willow]

"Historical documents", huh?

I guess Mormonism is "the best explanation we have that fits the evidenceof the collection of historical documents commonly known as the Book of Mormon", then?

(To be fair, the LDS's mythology is a lot more spurious than most of the stuff trumped up by the New Testament - yet the point remains: the logic involved is kinda circular.)

 

[Wicked Willow]

So this is where the fuel for your fire is coming from.

This helps me understand where you are coming from a little bit better.

Just as a side note, the belief that "We are all destined for hell" is rather at odds with the image of a perfect GOD. That is essentially saying the perfect GOD made a terrible creation. One that is fundamentally evil/bad.

If our only way to heaven is through blind faith that Jesus is saving us, which I feel is at odds with what Jesus is quoted as saying in the NT (Check out Matthew 5:17-22 for an example), then GOD is not who we believe GOD is.

^^That. I always wonder how people can look at this whole "innocent human sacrifice"-business and NOT see just what this says about the deity they envision in the process.

 

[nicknack28]

If one knows that their response is not going to be afforded sincere consideration and will only contribute to circular disagreement... wouldn't it just be easier to resist hitting the reply button?

There's little reason to argue with a person whom you perceive simply cannot be persuaded, and there's no reason to argue with such a person if third parties also aren't benefiting.

 

[RedRaven]

Good grief, too many posts since I went to bed. On broad brushing, I can see where it can work. This is not one of those occasions. I pointed out some of the issues with her arguments. She is depicting all religion as wrong and dangerous based on a very small understanding of Christianity. Just a few doctrines. The second response I called out for broad brushing involved teaching our children that the world is 7,000 years old and other ideas associated with creationism. I happen to believe in God(s) and science, oh my. My children aren't taught my religion or my husband's. My oldest would be able to understand some of the basics if I wanted to share but I don't. Why? I want her to get a well rounded view of what religion is and make her own choice. She is free to believe what she wants or choose not to believe if that is what she wants. And the learning of science is most definitely encouraged in our household. All of those things are not even close to what has been said about the "religious people".

A troll is anyone who disagrees with you or writes something you would rather not read.
For a religious person anyone writing 'there is no God' is a troll.

Religions are at their best when kept inside places of worship bring them into the light and the flaws are there for all to see.

You don't have to believe in God(s), frankly it doesn't make any difference to me, nor does it sentence you to an eternity of suffering for it. It doesn't upset my foundation, or my beliefs.

Since you seem to be unwavering in this idea that you know so much more than us about all/our religion and can point to them all being dangerous and flawed why don't you enlighten me to my flaws. Take a look at my icon, with all of the knowledge you seem to tout it should be easy. I'm sure since we're all alike it won't be hard to figure it out. I get that my first flaw is a belief in deity but that in and of itself isn't dangerous. Enlighten me, please.

 

[Supreme]

This is what I am talking about, is this delusional or what? how does a person let their brain degenerate to such a level?

In this circumstance at least, I'd rather a strange atheist with little experience on the subject topic (or any subject topic, so to speak) think me delusional and educated rather than uneducated and sane.

Calling theists degenerate is as weak as it gets.

Also, I can only assume my posts are on a *higher* intellectual capacity to yourself and you lack the abiility to refute them. Ah well, it's only a confirmation, one cannot say one did not expect it!

 

[Wicked Willow]

'nuff said.

 

[dingdong]

Good grief, too many posts since I went to bed. On broad brushing, I can see where it can work. This is not one of those occasions. I pointed out some of the issues with her arguments. She is depicting all religion as wrong and dangerous based on a very small understanding of Christianity. Just a few doctrines. The second response I called out for broad brushing involved teaching our children that the world is 7,000 years old and other ideas associated with creationism. I happen to believe in God(s) and science, oh my. My children aren't taught my religion or my husband's. My oldest would be able to understand some of the basics if I wanted to share but I don't. Why? I want her to get a well rounded view of what religion is and make her own choice. She is free to believe what she wants or choose not to believe if that is what she wants. And the learning of science is most definitely encouraged in our household. All of those things are not even close to what has been said about the "religious people".

You don't have to believe in God(s), frankly it doesn't make any difference to me, nor does it sentence you to an eternity of suffering for it. It doesn't upset my foundation, or my beliefs.

Since you seem to be unwavering in this idea that you know so much more than us about all/our religion and can point to them all being dangerous and flawed why don't you enlighten me to my flaws. Take a look at my icon, with all of the knowledge you seem to tout it should be easy. I'm sure since we're all alike it won't be hard to figure it out. I get that my first flaw is a belief in deity but that in and of itself isn't dangerous. Enlighten me, please.

RedRaven I don't think you are the average Christian if you don't want to indoctrinate your children, if all Christians were like you Christianity would be a completely different proposition, you sound as if what you believe is your belief and not your childrens, in your hands Christianity is 100% OK with me, good luck and may your God bless you because I don't think your religion would damage anyone least of all your children.

 

[dingdong]

'nuff said.

I'm gone anyway, I'll make way for a religious love in where you can all tell each other how wonderful it's going to be in heaven.

 

[RedRaven]

RedRaven I don't think you are the average Christian if you don't want to indoctrinate your children, if all Christians were like you Christianity would be a completely different proposition, you sound as if what you believe is your belief and not your childrens, in your hands Christianity is 100% OK with me, good luck and may your God bless you because I don't think your religion would damage anyone least of all your children.

I'm sure you realize by now that we all have an icon that gives a basic idea of where our beliefs fall. The pagan icon (which you will find by my name) doesn't define me well but it at least speaks to the fact that I'm not exactly a Christian.

Regardless, I appreciate you taking a step back from the idea that all religion is bad. Some people use their religion to back up their stance, regardless of how crazy or fringe it is (Westboro Baptist anyone). That doesn't reflect on the whole of they body. If a person is hateful, bigoted, racist ect and religious at the same time they will work to make their religion back up their heart. It's their heart that should be judged not necessarily the whole of the religion they subscribe to.

 

[RedRaven]

I'm gone anyway, I'll make way for a religious love in where you can all tell each other how wonderful it's going to be in heaven.

You might want to check her icon too...

 

[sidhe]

Yeah...you've had three pagans in the discussion, and at least one Muslim. Your inability/unwillingness to differentiate is an issue.

 

[Supreme]

'nuff said.

But it's so... tempting...

 

[Gardenia]

RedRaven I don't think you are the average Christian

Uh, is this really the problem here? Yeah, you're on Christian forums, but you are in the non-Christian section. There are some Christians in the NCR, and in this thread, but quite a few of us are not. Not all religions are Christianity, not all religions believe what Christianity does (heck not even all Christians hold the same views on everything). I kinda thought that would have been apparent after your last thread, but either apparently not, or you are just trolling. So far that seems to make the most sense, here...

 

[JasperJackson]

"Historical documents", huh?

I guess Mormonism is "the best explanation we have that fits the evidenceof the collection of historical documents commonly known as the Book of Mormon", then?

(To be fair, the LDS's mythology is a lot more spurious than most of the stuff trumped up by the New Testament - yet the point remains: the logic involved is kinda circular.)

No it's not circular. My starting point in coming to faith was that the New Testament exists and makes historical claims. From there I looked into arguments for and against whether the claims were true. I concluded they were and so I believed in Jesus.
Now, I've obviously left out a lot of details but one of the important ones for me is that the New Testament was written by multiple (8) different authors. Conversely, the Book of Mormon and the Koran for that matter were written by a single person, in both cases. Therefore it's, I'll say, more difficult to trust that what is written is truth.

 

[humblemuslim]

No it's not circular. My starting point in coming to faith was that the New Testament exists and makes historical claims. From there I looked into arguments for and against whether the claims were true. I concluded they were and so I believed in Jesus.
Now, I've obviously left out a lot of details but one of the important ones for me is that the New Testament was written by multiple (8) different authors. Conversely, the Book of Mormon and the Koran for that matter were written by a single person, in both cases. Therefore it's, I'll say, more difficult to trust that what is written is truth.

Ah that's refreshing...At least you have the reserve to say "more difficult" rather than the usual foolhardy absolute statements that are commonplace around here.

But to the point here, you say that you are comforted by the fact that 8 people wrote the New Testament. How do you know they did not copy each other? It is not as if they all wrote their texts at the exact same time displaced from one another by large distances.

Another issue is the question of whether 1 liar is more likely to be trusted or 8 liars. Unfortunately numbers do mean everything to those who disregard logical arguments. Appeals to popularity at their finest.

 

[b&wpac4]

Do you tell them that Santa Claus is a real person and ask them to believe it all of their lives? no because Santa Claus is not a real person,
so why do you tell them about Gods that don't exist? why don't you just teach them to be good people and leave out the myths?

So, instead of being able to show dangerous or damaging ideas, you reply with this.