What about the Seventh-Day Baptists?

[Esdra]

Hi

I know that you believe that every Church or Denomination who doesn´t celebrate the Lord´s day on Saturday/Sabbath are in heresy and sin against god´s commandments.

What I´m wondering know is, what you think about the Seventh-Day-Baptists then, as they also keep the Sabbath as you do?
Are they nevertheless heretics and will go to hell?

Esdra

 

[AndrewK788]

Hi

I know that you believe that every Church or Denomination who doesn´t celebrate the Lord´s day on Saturday/Sabbath are in heresy and sin against god´s commandments.

What I´m wondering know is, what you think about the Seventh-Day-Baptists then, as they also keep the Sabbath as you do?
Are they nevertheless heretics and will go to hell?

Esdra

It saddens me that Adventists have given themselves this sort of reputation. That is, that those who don't see as we do are heretics and thus going on the fast track to Hell. At the end of the day the reason any man suffers hell instead of entering heaven is simple--he chose to reject God. Now certainly I believe the Bible is clear in supporting the seventh-day Sabbath, but I am no judge of other men's consciences. It is the Holy Spirit's task to convict men of sin. It is my job to surrender myself fully to Christ and allow Him to work through me in whatever capacity He so desires.

As for the Seventh-day Baptists, I do not believe they are going to hell or are being saved. I would say the same for any and all Seventh-day Adventists. It's not about a corporate theological correctness, but a personal relationship with an all-power, all-merciful Savior. I think you're probably asking about theological differents however between our two groups. The primary difference between Seventh-day Adventists and Seventh-day Baptists is the Adventist emphasis on the heavenly sanctuary, Christ's mediatorial work of atonement currently happening in the Most Holy Place, and the current work of Christ cleansing His people of their sins...not simply forgiving them in the forensic/legal sense of the word, but actually empowering them to live godly lives on this earth!

As far as I know, the Seventh-day Baptists, though they believe in the biblical seventh-day Sabbath, they do not place much emphasis on the sanctuary. Hope this helps some!

God bless!

 

[ricker]

It saddens me that Adventists have given themselves this sort of reputation. That is, that those who don't see as we do are heretics and thus going on the fast track to Hell. At the end of the day the reason any man suffers hell instead of entering heaven is simple--he chose to reject God. Now certainly I believe the Bible is clear in supporting the seventh-day Sabbath, but I am no judge of other men's consciences. It is the Holy Spirit's task to convict men of sin. It is my job to surrender myself fully to Christ and allow Him to work through me in whatever capacity He so desires.

As for the Seventh-day Baptists, I do not believe they are going to hell or are being saved. I would say the same for any and all Seventh-day Adventists. It's not about a corporate theological correctness, but a personal relationship with an all-power, all-merciful Savior. I think you're probably asking about theological differents however between our two groups. The primary difference between Seventh-day Adventists and Seventh-day Baptists is the Adventist emphasis on the heavenly sanctuary, Christ's mediatorial work of atonement currently happening in the Most Holy Place, and the current work of Christ cleansing His people of their sins...not simply forgiving them in the forensic/legal sense of the word, but actually empowering them to live godly lives on this earth!

As far as I know, the Seventh-day Baptists, though they believe in the biblical seventh-day Sabbath, they do not place much emphasis on the sanctuary. Hope this helps some!

God bless!

I belive this is a good answer. My quiestion is, where in the Epistles to the Gentiles, or anywhere in the Bible post cross, does our salvational emphasis come from the sanctuary system? Wasn't that a shadow pointing to the fulfillment?

 

[AndrewK788]

I belive this is a good answer. My quiestion is, where in the Epistles to the Gentiles, or anywhere in the Bible post cross, does our salvational emphasis come from the sanctuary system? Wasn't that a shadow pointing to the fulfillment?

Hey ricker,

Good questions, and I'll try to answer them as best I can. I'll actually address your last question first.

Wasn't that a shadow pointing to the fulfillment?

Yes, the earthly sanctuary system were shadows. It is important to remember they were not shadows to become irrelevant after the cross; rather the earthly system was the shadow of the heavenly reality. Essentially, the earthly sanctuary system was God using props to show a fallen and degenerate human race exactly how he intended to save them. And of course Christ is the center of all of this.

where in the Epistles to the Gentiles, or anywhere in the Bible post cross, does our salvational emphasis come from the sanctuary system?

What the cross actually was--the altar of sacrifice--is all a part of this sanctuary system. To imply that the cross and the sanctuary system are mutually exclusive is to not fully understand either one. Christ died once and for all on Calvary, forever meeting the blood requirement without which there would be no remission of sin. His sacrifice is complete, it is eternal, and nothing can be added to it. But as we know from the earthly sanctuary, after the blood of the sacrifice was spilt, it also was applied to the Holy Place, as well as the Most Holy Place once a year on the Day of Atonement. Trying to isolate either the high priestly ministry of Christ or his role on the cross at the expense of the other is to preach an incomplete gospel in my opinion.

My primary thrust in that paragraph is to emphasize that the cross is not adverse to the "sanctuary system" in the first place. It's the center of it!

As far as where from the Bible can this emphasis be found... I won't flood you with proof texts but the book of Hebrews is a solid starting point that lays a solid basis from the New Testament.

God bless,

Andrew

 

[ricker]

Hey ricker,

Good questions, and I'll try to answer them as best I can. I'll actually address your last question first.



Yes, the earthly sanctuary system were shadows. It is important to remember they were not shadows to become irrelevant after the cross; rather the earthly system was the shadow of the heavenly reality. Essentially, the earthly sanctuary system was God using props to show a fallen and degenerate human race exactly how he intended to save them. And of course Christ is the center of all of this.



What the cross actually was--the altar of sacrifice--is all a part of this sanctuary system. To imply that the cross and the sanctuary system are mutually exclusive is to not fully understand either one. Christ died once and for all on Calvary, forever meeting the blood requirement without which there would be no remission of sin. His sacrifice is complete, it is eternal, and nothing can be added to it. But as we know from the earthly sanctuary, after the blood of the sacrifice was spilt, it also was applied to the Holy Place, as well as the Most Holy Place once a year on the Day of Atonement. Trying to isolate either the high priestly ministry of Christ or his role on the cross at the expense of the other is to preach an incomplete gospel in my opinion.

My primary thrust in that paragraph is to emphasize that the cross is not adverse to the "sanctuary system" in the first place. It's the center of it!

As far as where from the Bible can this emphasis be found... I won't flood you with proof texts but the book of Hebrews is a solid starting point that lays a solid basis from the New Testament.

God bless,

Andrew

Just a quick response. Most theologians that I have read believe Hebrews was written to prove that Jesus came to fulill/complete the sanctuary system, and that now He is serving in a priestly postion, with the kingly role yet to come. There are many allusions as to how the priesthood of Jesus is superior to the old system.

 

[AndrewK788]

Just a quick response. Most theologians that I have read believe Hebrews was written to prove that Jesus came to fulill/complete the sanctuary system, and that now He is serving in a priestly postion, with the kingly role yet to come. There are many allusions as to how the priesthood of Jesus is superior to the old system.

He did complete the earthly sanctuary system, but the earthly was a shadow of the heavenly. How could the idea of a sanctuary be obsolete if Christ is serving in a priestly position?

P.S. We probably ought to move this to another thread since the original post was asking about Seventh day Baptists

 

[ricker]

He did complete the earthly sanctuary system, but the earthly was a shadow of the heavenly. How could the idea of a sanctuary be obsolete if Christ is serving in a priestly position?

P.S. We probably ought to move this to another thread since the original post was asking about Seventh day Baptists

OK, but you did mention that the SDB didn't emphasize the Sanctuary system as Adventists do. I was just wondering why that was important and you answered why you thought it was. We're good.

If you want to read a more comprehensive take on my understanding of the sanctuary issue for some reason, you can read this quick. http://www.christianforums.com/t7282368/

 

[jmer816]

I personally don't know much about that denomination but would like to know more about them. Any church that loves Jesus enough to keep His commandments (John 14:15), is pretty awesome in my book

 

[Esdra]

I personally don't know much about that denomination but would like to know more about them. Any church that loves Jesus enough to keep His commandments (John 14:15), is pretty awesome in my book

Well, here is their homepage.
I've already thought so that you Adventists would find that Church interesting.

And here is their church-finder.

 

[aaaabrown]

Szekely Sanitarians

Discovering Europe's non-Jews who kept the faith - Magazine

Has anyone does research on this Sabbatarian group, that was based in Trynsylvania?

Apparently there are records of them dating from the 10th century a.d.

(Since I am not yet permitted to post a link, just do a search from them to learn more about these Sabbatarians.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have any of you heard of this group, that preceeds the Seventh Day Baptists and the Seventh Day Adventists, in keeping the Sabbath?

 

[Esdra]

Szekely Sanitarians

Discovering Europe's non-Jews who kept the faith - Magazine

Has anyone does research on this Sabbatarian group, that was based in Trynsylvania?

Apparently there are records of them dating from the 10th century a.d.

(Since I am not yet permitted to post a link, just do a search from them to learn more about these Sabbatarians.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have any of you heard of this group, that preceeds the Seventh Day Baptists and the Seventh Day Adventists, in keeping the Sabbath?

I haven't heard about that group yet.
But I believe in the beginning almost all Christians were Sabbaterians.
At least they are a Jewish sect.
But even in the bible it says that they kept the Shabbat but also gathered on the first day of the week (=Sunday) because Jesus resurrected on the first day.
Interesting that such groups existed until the 10th century though.

 

[samkadya]

People are saved by having faith in Jesus Christ. We keep the law as a fruit of salvation. Therefore SDBs who believe in Jesus Christ are saved.

 

[Dunbar]

I haven't heard about that group yet.
But I believe in the beginning almost all Christians were Sabbaterians.
At least they are a Jewish sect.
But even in the bible it says that they kept the Shabbat but also gathered on the first day of the week (=Sunday) because Jesus resurrected on the first day.
Interesting that such groups existed until the 10th century though.

Jesus was crucified on Friday does that mean Friday is a new holy day? No, of course not! No where in the new testament is Sunday or the 1st day of the week given prominence over the Sabbath. The fact that so little is said about the issue is because it wasn't a point of contention back then.

 

[Dunbar]

People are saved by having faith in Jesus Christ. We keep the law as a fruit of salvation. Therefore SDBs who believe in Jesus Christ are saved.

We do not keep the law as a fruit of salvation!! Adventists have been beating that dead horse for far too long. A NT commandment keeper is someone who has the faith of Jesus and the love of God in their heart. Ever read John? He talked about commandment keeping more than any disciple and always linked it with faith and love. Love is everything for it is the fulfillment of the law. The ten commandments are worthless for the believer in Christ.

 

[Dunbar]

I am a 7th day Baptist and we keep the Sabbath for strictly new testament reasons. Jesus Christ was the Lord of the Sabbath day and John was in the spirit on the Lord's day. Sunday get's it's name from the worship of the sun. Do you think God would be honored by worship on a polluted day like that - ummmmm, NO! SDA's do more damage than good with their old covenant Christianity. All they ever talk about is the Law, Law, Law and then sprinkle in Ellen White and vegetables - just a horrible Christian witness.

The Sabbath is a sign to the new testament believer for resting in the perfect and completed work of Jesus Christ. Just like circumcision was given as a sign of faith and polluted by the Jews into a work, so the Sabbath has been polluted by legalists.

 

[Jack_SDB]

The principle reasoning behind keeping the Sabbath (Saturday) Holy for a Seventh Day Baptist (SDB) is that it is a commandment; it's one of the Ten Commandments. Other interpretations or justifications for observing the Sabbath within the religion are per individual beliefs.

I was born and raised within the SDB religion with lineage stemming to the origins of the religion. The SDB religion is generally excepting of different interpretations of doctrine so long as they do not contradict the core principles of the religion. The main focus of the religion is, by no means, keeping the Sabbath Holy. The religion's focus is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ by witnessing, missionary efforts, and providing a safe and welcoming community within the congregations for all who wish to join.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi

I know that you believe that every Church or Denomination who doesn´t celebrate the Lord´s day on Saturday/Sabbath are in heresy and sin against god´s commandments.

What I´m wondering know is, what you think about the Seventh-Day-Baptists then, as they also keep the Sabbath as you do?
Are they nevertheless heretics and will go to hell?

Esdra

1. Nobody has the mark of the beast until the nation begins to violate its own constitution and destroy religious liberty by making laws in favor of it.

2. Seventh-day Baptists are not lost for "being Seventh-day Baptists" any more than Catholics are "lost for being Catholics" and more than SDAs are saved just because they are SDA. There are saved saints in all denominations.

3. Seventh-day Baptists are a great "reference point" because when People ask "What exactly is a Seventh-day Adventist" the answer is - "Well start with a Seventh-day Baptist" and then add
this teaching about the state of the dead in Matt 10:28 and John 10,
and this teaching about the investigative judgment of Daniel 7 ...
and the continuation of spiritual gifts in 1Cor 12,
the close of probation for mankind in Rev 22 and Rev 15,
a strong emphasis on the Rev 14 message of the 3 Angels
the Heb 8:1-5 message about Christ as our High Priest in heaven.
health laws in Lev 11 explaining animal disctinctions in Gen 6 and 7

And that is a Seventh-day Adventist.

So then in theory neither of the two denominations would have to be in fear or rebellion against these Bible texts -

"I will write My LAW on their mind and heart" Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8:6-10
"if you Love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus was crucified on Friday does that mean Friday is a new holy day? No, of course not! No where in the new testament is Sunday or the 1st day of the week given prominence over the Sabbath.

That is true.

The fact that so little is said about the issue in the NT is because it did not exist.

1 Cor 11 "as oft as you do this - you do celebrate the Lord's DEATH until He comes" -- no communion services were stated as "resurrection memorials" but rather memorials of the cross.

 

[BobRyan]

I belive this is a good answer. My quiestion is, where in the Epistles to the Gentiles, or anywhere in the Bible post cross, does our salvational emphasis come from the sanctuary system? Wasn't that a shadow pointing to the fulfillment?

In Hebrews 8 and 9 - God tells us that the entire point of the OT sanctuary was to explain how the Gospel was working ... specifically the role of Christ - post-cross as our High Priest in heaven.

The idea that Christ has not done anything of salvation significance in the last 2000 years - is foreign to the Bible.

 

[Dave-W]

But even in the bible it says that they kept the Shabbat but also gathered on the first day of the week (=Sunday) because Jesus resurrected on the first day.

Yes and no. It does say they gathered on the first day - but no mention as to why. (Acts 20:7)

I would submit that they were gathered for a havdalah service.