What about the rest of us?

[toLiJC]

I suppose we all form some sort of impression from posts made on this forum. Going beyond "impressions" I note that you now take the tack of so many, i.e. in effect attacking another rather than addressing the issues and arguments they have raised.

I have followed the Pure Land path for almost 20 years now, it begins with acceptance, "Come just as you are". And our life becomes one of gratitude. Most of the quotes that I post here I like simply because they support this life and speak in favour of it (and condemn what could be called "works" and "formulas of salvation") a life of surrender to grace, the unfolding of all its implications.

You are welcome to your own interpretations of the Bible, all the eternal suffering etc etc. Possibly your own wishes and desires are other than my own.

Thank you

the world of human(666) religion was the one that taught so many to believe God is omnipotent to provide souls with indefinitely lasting life in "heaven", but the truth is that the life of the true God also has a span, though He never dies completely and permanently, because actually His "death" is just a transition from His mature state to His seminal state, therefore the beginning and the end of His life span turn out to be the beginning and the end of the so-called single eternity, because it turns out in the end that there is no who/what to hold the universal creation in its integrity and it comes disintegrated, so the souls in paradise lose their paradisaical lives, albeit some of them for a while, and then God again issues from His seminal form growing big, and so the single eternity begins, He makes all the universal creation in six days, etc., in the beginning the souls that in the previous eternity(ies) won the prize to live for ever and ever are born in "heaven", i.e. they are not born and don't live as sinners in this world... - this is what the biblical doctrine says about (the) eternity

Mark 4:30-32 "he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom(i.e. the origins) of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It(i.e. in the beginning God) is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth(i.e. which, when it is in the beginning of (the) eternity), is less than all the seeds that be in the earth(i.e. is "less" than all things of the universe): But when it is sown(i.e. but when the beginning of (the) eternity starts), it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs(i.e. than all things of the universe), and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air(i.e. so that many Holy Angels) may lodge under the shadow of it."

the idolaters and the occultists as well as the heretical worshipers in general risk to suffer the most, even if they have most paradisaical lives in this world

Blessings

 

[Fizzywig]

the world of human(666) religion was the one that taught so many to believe God is omnipotent to provide souls with indefinitely lasting life in "heaven", but the truth is that the life of the true God also has a span, though He never dies completely and permanently, because actually His "death" is just a transition from His mature state to His seminal state, therefore the beginning and the end of His life span turn out to be the beginning and the end of the so-called single eternity, because it turns out in the end that there is no who/what to hold the universal creation in its integrity and it comes disintegrated, so the souls in paradise lose their paradisaical lives, albeit some of them for a while, and then God again issues from His seminal form growing big, and so the single eternity begins, He makes all the universal creation in six days, etc., in the beginning the souls that in the previous eternity(ies) won the prize to live for ever and ever are born in "heaven", i.e. they are not born and don't live as sinners in this world... - this is what the biblical doctrine says about (the) eternity

Mark 4:30-32 "he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom(i.e. the origins) of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It(i.e. in the beginning God) is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth(i.e. which, when it is in the beginning of (the) eternity), is less than all the seeds that be in the earth(i.e. is "less" than all things of the universe): But when it is sown(i.e. but when the beginning of (the) eternity starts), it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs(i.e. than all things of the universe), and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air(i.e. so that many Holy Angels) may lodge under the shadow of it."

the idolaters and the occultists as well as the heretical worshipers in general risk to suffer the most, even if they have most paradisaical lives in this world

Blessings

Hi again. Really, the fact that you keep inserting your very own interpretation in brackets demonstrates that you are offering exactly that............your interpretation. You should really learn to let the Word speak.

 

[gord44]

Fizz my man. You should know better then to debate with toLiJ!

 

[toLiJC]

Hi again. Really, the fact that you keep inserting your very own interpretation in brackets demonstrates that you are offering exactly that............your interpretation. You should really learn to let the Word speak.

when i witness to a God's word i witness only to what the true One gives me to witness to, and there is no my interpretation

Blessings

 

[Fizzywig]

when i witness to a God's word i witness only to what the true One gives me to witness to, and there is no my interpretation

Blessings

Sorry, I do not think so.

 

[Fizzywig]

Fizz my man. You should know better then to debate with toLiJ!

He is just a little pussycat.

The thing is, in the Pure Land there are those who understand Amida as "him out west" who comes to take us to the Pure Land when we die..........and those who understand Amida as a personification of Reality-as-is, and the Pure Land as being here, NOW, when seen with the eye of faith.

Yet, ideally, and truly, all are "one" in that which matters and what motivates our lives - grace and gratitude.

 

[Fizzywig]

the world of human(666) religion was the one that taught so many to believe God is omnipotent to provide souls with indefinitely lasting life in "heaven", but the truth is that the life of the true God also has a span, though He never dies completely and permanently, because actually His "death" is just a transition from His mature state to His seminal state, therefore the beginning and the end of His life span turn out to be the beginning and the end of the so-called single eternity, because it turns out in the end that there is no who/what to hold the universal creation in its integrity and it comes disintegrated, so the souls in paradise lose their paradisaical lives, albeit some of them for a while, and then God again issues from His seminal form growing big, and so the single eternity begins, He makes all the universal creation in six days, etc., in the beginning the souls that in the previous eternity(ies) won the prize to live for ever and ever are born in "heaven", i.e. they are not born and don't live as sinners in this world... - this is what the biblical doctrine says about (the) eternity

Now that Andy Murray has triumphed at Wimbledon, I give the above my attention.

Seriously, I ask:- What on earth ( or in heaven) is it about? In a book that contains the great hymn to love of St Paul, the Beatitudes and the various Parables of Jesus........how on earth explain the above as the words of "a witness to the true God"?

Seriously.

 

[toLiJC]

Now that Andy Murray has triumphed at Wimbledon, I give the above my attention.

Seriously, I ask:- What on earth ( or in heaven) is it about? In a book that contains the great hymn to love of St Paul, the Beatitudes and the various Parables of Jesus........how on earth explain the above as the words of "a witness to the true God"?

Seriously.

do you know how many souls suffer in the universe?!, usually we the humans don't know many things in this regard, but this doesn't mean there are no zillions of (still) suffering souls in the universe, and the worst thing is that all bad things that already happened to those souls, will happen again in every next/future eternity, moreover, to all other souls, not only to the ones that have suffered since the beginning of this eternity, that is why if we don't work now for overall salvation in the true Lord God, there will also be no better salvation for many others in the next/future eternities, including for you and for me, it is similar to shooting with a video camera, everything that was shot will repeat every time when it is (re)played, so we can now work for overall salvation in the true Lord God so that there may be better salvation for the souls in the next/future eternities - this is the basics of the doctrine of faith presented in the biblical scriptures, especially in the ones of the New Testament

Matthew 7:1-12 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again..... Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Blessings

 

[Fizzywig]

do you know how many souls suffer in the universe?!, usually we the humans don't know many things in this regard, but this doesn't mean there are no zillions of (still) suffering souls in the universe, and the worst thing is that all bad things that already happened with those souls, will happen again in every next/future eternity, moreover, with all other souls, not only with the ones that have suffered since the beginning of this eternity, that is why if we don't work now for overall salvation in the true Lord God, there will also be no better salvation for many others in the next/future eternities, including for you and for me, it is similar to shooting with a video camera, everything that was shot will repeat every time when it is (re)played, so we can now work for overall salvation in the true Lord God so that there may be better salvation for the souls in the next/future eternities - this is the basics of the doctrine of faith presented in the biblical scriptures, especially in the ones of the New Testament


Blessings

Hi again. the Buddhist texts also have their claim that each of us is caught in the round of suffering, the beginning of which is impossible to discern. Yet they also advise not to speculate to much, but to get down to the job of seeing the origins of suffering in ourselves, how it arises, and to walk the path that leads to the end of suffering. In walking this path we realise that "In protecting oneself, one protects others. In protecting others, one protects oneself."

You are obviously free to claim that you are the spokesman of the "true Lord God" and that your own chosen book is His word. I see no reason to think your claim is true. I see no more evidence of what could be called the fruits of the spirit in Christians than in those of any other Faith.

Getting back to speculation and its alternatives, I would say it is far better to look round us NOW, at ourselves and those we live with, to see the suffering that exists and to seek to relieve it as best we can. This not to earn brownie points to satisfy some almighty being, but simply out of common human empathy.

Your follow up quote from the NT is all well and good, yet you imply that if anyone has asked and come to a different conclusion from yourself, they have in fact NOT received; they have asked for bread and received a stone. As I see it, this because you value creed and not grace and faith. This apparently irrespective of how loving they are towards their fellow human beings.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

creed and not grace and faith. This apparently irrespective of how loving they are towards their fellow human beings.

Creeds, nor "how loving they are towards their fellow human beings",
neither one
saves anyone from certain shame and death in the end.
Not as long as sin is not dealt with (and those things cannot deal with the penalty of sin: death).

 

[Fizzywig]

Creeds, nor "how loving they are towards their fellow human beings",
neither one
saves anyone from certain shame and death in the end.
Not as long as sin is not dealt with (and those things cannot deal with the penalty of sin: death).

You left out my words "grace and faith".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You left out my words "grace and faith".

On purpose - think about it, why?

 

[Fizzywig]

On purpose - think about it, why?

I have no idea.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have no idea.

Because it didn't matter.
Notice your own word before "grace and faith" ?

 

[Fizzywig]

Because it didn't matter.
Notice your own word before "grace and faith" ?

Sorry, just assume I am stupid. You have lost me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You said "NOT grace and faith".

As I see it, this because you value creed and not grace and faith.

Grace and Faith not valued. I agree with that observation.

 

[Fizzywig]

You said "NOT grace and faith".

Grace and Faith not valued. I agree with that observation.

So you are agreeing that even those who would claim to speak for the "true God" and evidently consider themselves of the "elect" can actually be void as far as knowing Grace?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you are agreeing that even those who would claim to speak for the "true God" and evidently consider themselves of the "elect" can actually be void as far as knowing Grace?

Totally,
as God says in His Word often.

 

[Fizzywig]

Anyway, must be off to bed.

I would say that embracing all of us are the words "with God all things are possible", said when the disciples, aghast, asked " who then can be saved"?

I see in myself, and I have seen in others, that often we are "saved" in spite of our beliefs rather than because of them.

I do think, in fact I have found, such things are clearer in the Pure Land, where Grace IS found and known.

 

[dlamberth]

Totally,
as God says in His Word often.

I have the hardest time understanding the Saving Grace of God with out the "Grace" part included.