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What about the differences between chimps and humans?

Bungle_Bear

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I am not naming names, but there might be atheists and agnostics on this forum who are insecure about their beliefs, or who are internally conflicted by unrepentant sins, and therefore feel the need to debate anonymous theists on the internet to assuage their insecurity.

I trust that, if God wants you to be saved, He will convict your heart, which is beyond my ability to do. I hope that, if He speaks to your heart, you will listen.
There may also be theists here looking to shore up their faltering beliefs.

So what?
 
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AV1611VET

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You said there is a LARGE SCALE change.
You were challenged to show you are not ignorant by telling us the difference between fish and amphibian.
I'll take a stab at it.

And if I'm wrong, sue me.

Fish have gills.

Amphibians have lungs -- or lungs and gills -- or whatever.

Now here's one for your cheap Linnaean sorting system:

How is it Jonah was swallowed by a GREAT FISH ...

Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

... but Jesus calls it a WHALE?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Let's see you concatenate that DNA prease!

And if you really want to impress me, tell me how a "great lizard" ended up with a navel?

Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
 
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Astrid

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I believe it's only young earth creationists who suppose rapid evolution of species from created kinds, because their understanding of Biblical chronology requires it.

Old earth creationists, on the other hand, look at the fossil record for what it is, long periods of stasis followed by the abrupt appearance of new forms of life.

They don't look very hard if that is
what they think they see.
They're no different from yec,
all they really look at is their personally
chosen reading of the Christian bible.
 
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AV1611VET

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All they really look at is their personally
chosen reading of the Christian bible.
Christians have a habit of doing that.

On the other hand, we've been accused of being brainwashed too.

So either way, academia looks down on us.

We're either some kind of rogue nut, or we're "sheeple."

It's a catch-22.
 
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HitchSlap

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Do you know very much about the history of science? I am well-aware of the evidences presented for evolution, which are subject to interpretation. I took anthropology in college and had to write papers on the evidences presented for common descent.
There is no room for interpretation. This is a lie foisted on you by creationists. And using an obscure quote from 1909 doesn’t help your case.
 
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renniks

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Both common descent and common design mean common ancestry.
Not necasarrily. Common design has nothing to do with whether a human descended from a primate. It just means that different species have similarities that seem to point to a common designer.
 
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Frank Robert

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Does that demonstrate the capability of natural selection acting on random mutation to account for such largescale changes as fish to amphibian, reptile to bird, etc.?
No it demonstrates macroevolution.

You really should get your facts straight.

I don't know a lot about fish, but I do know about birds and they are not decedents of reptiles nor did they descend from a reptile. Dinosaurs and crocodiles share a common ancestor - Archosaurs, you can easily find out all you need to know about Archosaurs with a simple search. Getting back to birds. Put simply birds are dinosaurs. There have been numerous fossils from China, since the 1990s, that account for most if not all of the evolution links to modern birds. Again, a simple search can fill in the blanks for you.

Back to fish & amphibians. I did the search for you.
Amphibian Evolution and Ecology
Amphibians evolved during the middle of the Devonian period (416 to 359 million years ago) from the lobe-finned fish of the vertebrate class Sarcopterygii. Fossils found in Canada in 2006 have provided a critical link in our understanding of the evolution of amphibians from lobe-finned fish.​
 
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Astrid

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No it demonstrates macroevolution.

You really should get your facts straight.

I don't know a lot about fish, but I do know about birds and they are not decedents of reptiles nor did they descend from a reptile. Dinosaurs and crocodiles share a common ancestor - Archosaurs, you can easily find out all you need to know about Archosaurs with a simple search. Getting back to birds. Put simply birds are dinosaurs. There have been numerous fossils from China, since the 1990s, that account for most if not all of the evolution links to modern birds. Again, a simple search can fill in the blanks for you.

Back to fish & amphibians. I did the search for you.
Amphibian Evolution and Ecology
Amphibians evolved during the middle of the Devonian period (416 to 359 million years ago) from the lobe-finned fish of the vertebrate class Sarcopterygii. Fossils found in Canada in 2006 have provided a critical link in our understanding of the evolution of amphibians from lobe-finned fish.​
There are lots of fossils of creatures that our hero of the
large scale change could not possibly identify as fish or amphibian,
for the simple reason that they combine
features in a way no living animal does.
 
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HitchSlap

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Your definition of reasonable people needs some work.
Literally the entire field of biology unequivocally accept ToE. And as of January 28, 2021, 1,465 of them are named Steve! I’m sorry, but creationists have lied to you.


(Only about 1% of scientists are named Steve, so there!)
 
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Astrid

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Literally the entire field of biology unequivocally accept ToE. And as of January 28, 2021, 1,465 of them are named Steve! I’m sorry, but creationists have lied to you.


(Only about 1% of scientists are named Steve, so there!)

Make that "educated people worldwide ".
 
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Humble_Disciple

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In case anyone hasn't noticed, the quotes posted in my OP are from sixteen years ago, and are from mainstream scientists.

In the last sixteen years, has the scientific community's knowledge in any way improved regarding the following? -

Can we now provide a DNA-based answer to the fascinating and fundamental question, "What makes us human?" Not at all! Comparison of the human and chimpanzee genomes has not yet offered any major insights into the genetic elements that underlie bipedal locomotion, a big brain, linguistic abilities, elaborated abstract thought, or any other unique aspect of the human phenome.
https://go.gale.com/ps/anonymous?id=GALE%7CA136261355&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00368075&p=AONE&sw=w

But those hoping for an immediate answer to the question of human uniqueness will be disappointed. "We cannot see in this why we are phenotypically so different from the chimps," says Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute of Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, a co-author on one Nature paper and leader of a study in Science comparing gene expression in chimps and humans (see www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1108296). "Part of the secret is hidden in there, but we don't understand it yet."
https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA136261316&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00368075&p=HRCA&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ee25a9a50

If scientists still "don't understand it yet," because "they don't have a DNA-based answer to the fascinating and fundamental question, "What makes us human?"', then you have no right to judge others for having a different interpretation, that humans were specially created by God.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I am a white person who attends a predominantly black church, and the racism which Darwin expressed in the Descent of Man should be disgusting to anyone on this forum.

If the Descent of Man is a legitimate science text, then racism is perfectly okay. Should I quote Darwin's work again, like I have elsewhere on this forum?

In Darwin's own view, some races were more politically powerful than others because they were more evolved. This made perfect sense to Darwin in light of the survival of the fittest.

Darwin =/= evolution.

The argument you are making is what is often called poisoning the well, a kind of genetic fallacy.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Frank Robert

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Not necasarrily. Common design has nothing to do with whether a human descended from a primate. It just means that different species have similarities that seem to point to a common designer.
In design the ancestry is within the kind, i.e. dog and dingo from wolf which is not evidence for design but is evidence of evolution. A problem for creationists is not knowing where do kinds begin and end.
 
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Frank Robert

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In case anyone hasn't noticed, the quotes posted in my OP are from sixteen years ago, and are from mainstream scientists.

In the last sixteen years, has the scientific community's knowledge in any way improved regarding the following? -



If scientists still "don't understand it yet," because "they don't have a DNA-based answer to the fascinating and fundamental question, "What makes us human?"', then you have no right to judge others for having a different interpretation, that humans were specially created by God.
The Argument from Ignorance (also, Argumentum ad Ignorantiam): The fallacy that since we don't know (or can never know, or cannot prove) whether a claim is true or false, it must be false, or it must be true.

You can have any interpretation you want but you are dismissing all the evidence of common descent which does not negate the belief that humans were specially created by God. Check out The Genealogical Adam and Eve
 
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Jimmy D

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If scientists still "don't understand it yet," because "they don't have a DNA-based answer to the fascinating and fundamental question, "What makes us human?"', then you have no right to judge others for having a different interpretation, that humans were specially created by God.

Why not?

By focusing on one specific question that hasn’t been answered you are ignoring all the evidence that suggests that all life has evolved.

On the other hand some sort of special creation of man has zero evidence, absolutely nothing.

You believe what you believe, fine. But your position is not based on the interpretation of any scientific evidence.
 
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renniks

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In design the ancestry is within the kind, i.e. dog and dingo from wolf which is not evidence for design but is evidence of evolution. A problem for creationists is not knowing where do kinds begin and end.
It's not that hard to understand. A canine and a feline are not the same kind for example.
 
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