What About Progressive Sanctification?

[Bible Highlighter]

First of all, please address Post 850 before proceeding further. That is my challenge to anyone monitoring this thread.

As for "suppressing omniscience" - call it whatever you like. If today I know Hebrew, and then tomorrow, I no longer know it, and then the next day I begin learning it again, that's change. That's not immutability.

If you insist on calling it immutability, then at some point it becomes evident that you are using words such as "changeable" and "immutable" as synonyms - in essence a distinction without a difference.

To let you know, I believe in Partial Immutability. In certain ways, God does not change. God does not change in regards to His good character. God does not change in regards to His holiness. God does not change in regards to the nature of His being a spirit being. In other words, God is still spirit. God does not change in regards to Him being a Trinity. God does not change in regards to the conditional promises within His Word.

But there are other ways God can change. We see God appear to change in the fact that He brought about an Old Covenant, and then He later brought about a New Covenant. This suggests a change. For both covenants are different. God appears to change in the fact that the Word was made flesh. This never happened before in human history. It was a change. So I agree. God does and can make changes. But in other ways, God does not change.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Was just an expression of surprise. I don't have that kind of extra time on my hands.

We all have time to be more loving and more friendlier with all people (Especially with those we disagree with strongly). For 1 Corinthians 13 says that without love, we are nothing.

 

[RickReads]

Again, number of the post?

Your job to go find it. I don`t know the number.

 

[Noxot]

God could earn Praise and Merit by simply being God and coexisting with his creatures... being good over them as a good God would.

Jesus as a soul would be like God having an MMO character that can gain experience and skill points and level up ect.

God having the ability to become and to grow and progress is good and there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that is all that God is. "I am that I am" does seem to imply change.

A few unconscious compulsions that most religious people of My Religion try to do which influences how they try to develop their worldview:

1) No equality with God. This too might imply that God is weak.
2) God cannot have a weakness, he must be absolutely sufficient and therefore the idea of immutability and related Concepts which are probably influenced by the Greeks perception that Perfection means finiteness and form. Infinity and freedom is chaos. Non-being is somewhat incomprehensible to some. The Greeks loved reason, that's why it plays a huge role in things like the neoplatonic philosophy / religion.

 

[QvQ]

Nothing wrong with that. (Sigh). Again, that's not the questions asked here. See my last response to you - you ignored the thrust of that post. Convenient?


He didn't come into existence. Matter is eternal, and conscious. God was the first person to become fully sentient.

You are adding a bunch of your own ideas to what I said. Convenient for you? Why not just critique what I wrote? Oh that's right. Much easier to erect strawmen.

Wrong question - but close. The question I'm asking is:


[Whether] Praise is deserved based on merit.
[Whether] One is worthy of praise based on merit.

And the answer to that kind of question is unequivocally Yes.

God does not Work and Earn Merit.
God is not the "first person to become fully sentient."
Matter is not conscious.

 

[JAL]

God could earn Praise and Merit by simply being God and coexisting with his creatures... being good over them as a good God would.

If His deeds do not conform to the definition of merit given in post 850, He is not worthy of praise.

 

[JAL]

God does not Work and Earn Merit.

Consider the cross. Do you typically praise Him for His periods of sleep on earth? His meals? His R&R? Mostly you praise Him for the cross, right? He EARNED that praise by suffering. That's how it's supposed to work.

Matter is not conscious

Actually all the data points to a physical soul. This was covered in that link to the thread "God is a physical being".

 

[QvQ]

Consider the cross. Do you typically praise Him for His periods of sleep on earth? His meals? His R&R? Mostly you praise Him for the cross, right? He EARNED that praise by suffering. That's how it's supposed to work.



Actually all the data points to a physical soul. This was covered in that link to the thread "God is a physical being".

I praise Christ for the Resurrection by God's Grace.
There is a no merit in the execution of a person who was put to death for violating civil and religious law, convicted by authorities at the time.
Without the Resurrection, the Cross has no meaning.
Christ was the Resurrection.

Matter is eternal and conscious? Out of that soup, God evolved as the first sentient person? Out of the formless.. form? Evolutionary theology?
The new Gnostic. Matter is the eternal spirit, therefore god and creation are products of immutable evolutionary law. The conscious being of matter and evolution's mechanism is before and beyond god who is the "first sentient person (physical form)?
.

 

[JAL]

I praise Christ for the Resurrection by God's Grace.
There is a no merit in the execution of a person who was put to death for violating civil and religious law, convicted by authorities at the time.
Christ was not the Cross, Christ was the Resurrection.

Matter is eternal and conscious? Out of that void, God evolved as the first sentient person? Out of the formless, form? Evolutionary theology?
The new Gnostic. Matter is the eternal spirit, therefore god and creation are products of immutable evolutionary law. The conscious being of matter and evolution's mechanism is before and beyond god who is the "first sentient person (physical form)?
.

Immutable evolutionary law? Why do you keep adding strawmen to my system? Oh that's right, no cogent objections.

And FYI - the church father Tertullian was 100% materialist, so there is some degree of precedent in church history.

 

[JAL]

I praise Christ for the Resurrection by God's Grace.
There is a no merit in the execution of a person who was put to death for violating civil and religious law, convicted by authorities at the time.
Without the Resurrection, the Cross has no meaning.
Christ was the Resurrection.

Baloney. That's like claiming we will deserve praise for our impending resurrection. It's our sacrifice/suffering that will bring us merit before God, not our resurrection.

 

[Noxot]

I mostly try to base everything on God as wisdom and love so I don't care too much about merit. Merit Would simply be a tool that love would use for its own pleasure. Things change a lot depending on if we decided to be part of this world or not. There is no merit or love in an authoritarian, manipulative, and controlling God.

 

[JAL]

I mostly try to base everything on God as wisdom and love so I don't care too much about merit. Merit Would simply be a tool that love would use for its own pleasure. Things change a lot depending on if we decided to be part of this world or not. There is no merit or love in an authoritarian, manipulative, and controlling God.

There is righteousness in anyone faithful to conscience, and merit when it costs them labor/suffering to do so.

 

[QvQ]

Baloney. That's like claiming we will deserve praise for our impending resurrection. It's our sacrifice/suffering that will bring us merit before God, not our resurrection.

I cannot resurrect myself, therefore I praise Christ/God. Give honor where honor is due.
Sacrifice/Suffering? Are you suggesting that we become extreme ascetics, flagellating ourselves through the streets, chanting "mea culpa, mea culpa" to gain "merit" in the sight of God?

 

[Noxot]

I would say that if you are a mortal creature that you suffer.

 

[JAL]

I cannot resurrect myself, therefore I praise Christ/God. Give honor where honor is due.
Sacrifice/Suffering? Are you suggesting that we become extreme ascetics, flagellating ourselves through the streets, chanting "mea culpa, mea culpa" to gain "merit" in the sight of God?

Conscience is our only authority. I have a thread defending that epistemic claim, if you'd like to read it.

My conscience doesn't press me to self-flagellate. Never has. But if it did, I'd be obligated.

 

[JAL]

I would say that if you are a mortal creature that you suffer.

Probably true. Hard to think of any exceptions at the moment.

 

[QvQ]

I would say that if you are a mortal creature that you suffer.

Whether a person is a Christian or not, so what is the point? Suffering does not give anyone merit in the eyes of God.

 

[QvQ]

Conscience is our only authority. I have a thread defending that epistemic claim, if you'd like to read it.

My conscience doesn't press me to self-flagellate. Never has. But if it did, I'd be obligated.

People act in self interest and self gratification. I doubt people know right from wrong (conscience). What most people claim is conscience or reason is rationalization for self interest and self gratification, that includes everything from "white lies" to abortion. If mankind had a conscience, what a wonderful world it would be. History proves otherwise.

 

[JAL]

People act in self interest and self gratification. I doubt people know right from wrong (conscience). What most people claim is conscience or reason is rationalization for self interest and self gratification, that includes everything from "white lies" to abortion. If mankind had a conscience, what a wonderful world it would be. History proves otherwise.

When I use the term conscience I am actually referring to one specific rule:

“If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and action-B is good, I should go with action-B.”

That rule doesn't actually mention the word conscience and thus isn't really susceptible to objections about "conscience". Anyway that's the rule that God will judge all men on, unless He is unjust. Because it basically means, "Do what is right to the best of your knowledge". Which is the most askable of anyone.

 

[Noxot]

Whether a person is a Christian or not, so what is the point? Suffering does not give anyone merit in the eyes of God.

I think mortal suffering would make God pity us and make him want to show Mercy to us. There is a connection between vulnerability and love. For instance it is hard to not feel something for a baby a puppy or a kitten. Even more so if the puppy is trapped in a hole or some other distressful situation such as a baby crying because it needs its mother's milk and warmth.

I doubt God cares too much about merit when I'm crying out in need of him. On the other hand merit is a sign of strength and maturity.