What About Progressive Sanctification?

[JAL]

In fact I gave you a clear precedent for my conclusion. I pointed out that in all other contexts - all contexts except the hypostatic union (how convenient) - the concept of 2 natures is dismissed as incoherent nonsense.

 

[JAL]

And Creation ex nihilo is impossible according to human wisdom and reasoning as is God is One yet Three

Trinity? Cinch to explain.

...and the 2 natures in Christ.

Right, like you just said:

impossible according to human wisdom and reasoning

Exactly. Humanly incomprehensible theory. Gibberish. I think we were talking past each other. Glad you agree with me.

 

[RickReads]

In a published, peer-reviewed theological journal - the oldest evangelical journal in the USA - a theologian admitted that the hypostatic union - his own position - is incomprehensible. And others like have made the same admission.

You won't find that problem in any of my views, by the way. Regeneration? Cinch to explain. Sanctification? Cinch. Virgin birth? Cinch. Incarnation? Cinch. Original Sin? Cinch.

Ok, if you could put it in terms that didn`t require that I spend a bunch of time in my dictionary I would enjoy reading more about all of that. The hypostatic union isn`t really a concern of mine, as you charge I don`t think I really understand it but I never heard of it till I came here. So, I`m still kinda sorting that one out. I don`t read old theology so I`m a bit behind the eight ball when it comes to terms that were invented after the 1st century.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Please don't tell lies. I do not rely exclusively on appeals to authority.

you did in your reply mentioning a theologian who said it was incomprehensible about the 2 natures in Christ.

" Then you are in denial about the incomprehensibility. For now I'll stick with this evaluation, "No sane study of Christology even pretends to fathom it" (Charles Lee Feinberg, "The Hypostatic Union: Part 2," Bibliotheca Sacra, (1935), p. 412)."

 

[RickReads]

No, I have issues with the Reformed God who would hold many accountable for one man's mistake. That is pure evil.

Call it what you want, it`s a Bible issue.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[JAL]

you did in your reply mentioning a theologian who said it was incomprehensible about the 2 natures in Christ.

" Then you are in denial about the incomprehensibility. For now I'll stick with this evaluation, "No sane study of Christology even pretends to fathom it" (Charles Lee Feinberg, "The Hypostatic Union: Part 2," Bibliotheca Sacra, (1935), p. 412)."

That post was not exclusive reliance on authority.

 

[JAL]

Call it what you want, it`s a Bible issue.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Exactly, it always come back to, "Here's my internally self-contradictory stance - but I have a million and one verses to back it up!"

 

[RickReads]

That post was not exclusive reliance on authority.

You made me do it again

 

[RickReads]

Exactly, it always come back to, "Here's my internally self-contradictory stance - but I have a million and one verses to back it up!"

You`re killin me man. Ur gonna get me in trouble.

 

[JAL]

You made me do it again

Now you are the one making me laugh. The two of you evidently don't know the meaning of the word "exclusive".

 

[JAL]

You`re killin me man. Ur gonna get me in trouble.

No resolution of the contradictions. As expected.

 

[RickReads]

Now you are the one making me laugh. The two of you evidently know the meaning of the word "exclusive".

Why are you blaming God for everything?

 

[JAL]

Call it what you want, it`s a Bible issue.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

How about a non-self-contradictory reading of the passage? For a change? A theory where God isn't so evil as to let innocent people suffer the consequences of one man's sin.

All the data favors the idea of a physical soul. Here's what Millar J. Erickson concluded (I reached the same conclusion long before I ever heard of that guy or such a position).

"We were all physically present in Adam, and so we all sinned in his act." (Erickson, Christian Theology).

He didn't go into much detail, but I have always had my own theory. (2,000 years have proven that no other viable theory is known to man). After Adam sinned, God withdrew most of his sin-stained soul (a physical soul broken into parts by God) into suspended animation. And at every human birth, He mates a piece of this soul to the embryo. In other words, YOU are Adam, YOU sinned in the garden even if no longer remember doing so. You didn't GET a sinful nature from Adam (that too would be another contradiction in terms). You ARE sinful because you CHOSE to sin.

See what I did? I resolved a logical contradiction. You'd do well to follow that example.

This has tremendous bearing on election. Suppose that God forechose specific particles of Adam's soul, before the Fall, preelecting them to salvation (if the fall should occur) before the foundation of this world.

The problem is - we don't know how those particles are distributed! In my opinion, every human being has some elect particles! That means everyone can be saved even though regeneration is monergistic and by sovereign election. If a person dies without getting saved, those particles go BACK into suspended animation, and then can be mated again with someone else in the next generation. Ultimately, all the elect will be saved.

I don't care whether you agree with this conclusion. What I care about is that, unlike me, you have no effective resolution for the charges of contradiction. You'll just persist in denying them.

 

[RickReads]

No resolution of the contradictions. As expected.

I want to resolve them but I can`t remember what they are

 

[JAL]

I want to resolve them but I can`t remember what they are

There are so many that I too am losing count!

 

[RickReads]

How about a non-self-contradictory reading of the passage? For a change? A theory where God isn't so evil as to let innocent people suffer the consequences of one man's sin.

All the data favors the idea of a physical soul. Here's what Millar J. Erickson concluded (I reached the same conclusion long before I ever heard of that guy or such a position).

"We were all physically present in Adam, and so we all sinned in his act." (Erickson, Christian Theology).

He didn't go into much detail, but I have always had my own theory. (2,000 years have proven that no other viable theory is known to man). After Adam sinned, God withdrew most of his sin-stained soul (a physical soul broken into parts by God) into suspended animation. And at every human birth, He mates a piece of this soul to the embryo. In other words, YOU are Adam, YOU sinned in the garden even if no longer remember doing so. You didn't GET a sinful nature from Adam (that too would be another contradiction in terms). You ARE sinful because you CHOSE to sin.

See what I did? I resolved a logical contradiction. You'd do well to follow that example.

This has tremendous bearing on election. Suppose that God forechose specific particles of Adam's soul, before the Fall, preelecting them to salvation (if the fall should occur) before the foundation of this world.

The problem is - we don't know how those particles are distributed! In my opinion, every human being has some elect particles! That means everyone can be saved even though regeneration is monergistic and by sovereign election. If a person dies without getting saved, those particles go BACK into suspended animation, and then can be mated again with someone else in the next generation. Ultimately, all the elect will be saved.

I don't care whether you agree with this conclusion. What I care about is that, unlike me, you have no effective resolution for the charges of contradiction. You'll just persist in denying them.

I appreciate you sharing what you really believe. I really do. Unfortunately, none of this is Biblical.
And just so I am clear, it doesn`t line up with what God says. I can`t cut you a break for that reason.
You are polluted with science falsely so-called. For all your pronouncements about how solid your views are they are pure garbage. For what it`s worth, it hurts me to be so critical. It makes me want to quit this site. I see that behind all your rhetoric you have a lot of issues with how God does things. It makes me sad for you and I will remember you in my prayers.

 

[JAL]

I appreciate you sharing what you really believe. I really do. Unfortunately, none of this is Biblical.
And just so I am clear, it doesn`t line up with what God says. I can`t cut you a break for that reason.
You are polluted with science falsely so-called. For all your pronouncements about how solid your views are they are pure garbage. For what it`s worth, it hurts me to be so critical. It makes me want to quit this site. I see that behind all your rhetoric you have a lot of issues with how God does things. It makes me sad for you and I will remember you in my prayers.

Pure intellectual dishonesty. Clearly I have no complaints with the biblical God - only with the traditional views that, when fully extrapolated, insinuate that God is evil, unjust, a liar, and so forth.

For example, a God who says:
(1) Adam sinned
(2) Therefore you are a sinner even though you are not Adam.

Is in fact a liar.

 

[JAL]

And you said you want Scripture? No you don't. Not really. You certainly don't want to hear about Ezekiel 18 where God says that a child SHALL NOT suffer for the sins of his father (such as father Adam).

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Pure intellectual dishonesty. Clearly I have no complaints with the biblical God - only with the traditional views that, when fully extrapolated, insinuate that God is evil, unjust, a liar, and so forth.

For example, a God who says:
(1) Adam sinned
(2) Therefore you are a sinner even though you are not Adam.

Is in fact a liar.

Romans 5
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

hope this helps !!!

 

[JAL]

Romans 5
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

hope this helps !!!

Relevance? I already addressed that passage - and not in the traditional ways that construe God as unjust, evil, a liar, and so on.