• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What About Progressive Sanctification?

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
doesn't matter what the KJV translates the word in the Greek is what counts.

4238 prássō – properly, the active process in performing (accomplishing) a deed, and implying what is done as a regular practice – i.e. a routine or habit

nuff said................

Come on now. You don't speak or write Greek or Hebrew. I also doubt that James Strong and his buddies created an inspired work of God, as well. One either has one BIBLE as their authority or they are making religious men their authority. I believe God's Word.
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,727
✟389,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes because that is what the Bible teaches. Adam had caused the fall of all mankind by just one sin. Ananias and Sapphira were condemned for lying to the Spirit by their one sin.

Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

Plus, how many sins do you have to keep doing or how many times do you have to sin repeatedly before you realize it is practing sin and or habitual sin? What is the gauge or marker?



Yes, but they lost their salvation temporarily via by sin, and then they later repented and regained their salvation back.



No, what you said doesn't help. You are speaking against what the Bible is saying on this topic.
You can say that until you are blue in the face and I will never believe your position because it makes Gods word a lie and His promises untrue. Sinless perfection is not of God.


Question: "Is sinless perfection possible in this life?"

Answer:
Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.

It is true that the Bible calls us to be “perfect as [our] heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48). The Greek word for “perfect” here is telios. It means “brought to its end, completed, or perfect.” So, to be “perfect” in this sense is not how perfectionists so often imagine it. Rather, it is to be completed in Christ. Philippians 1:6 says that completion is the work of God. He created us, saved us, and is faithful to perfect us.

This is not to say that we have no responsibility to grow in our faith (2 Peter 3:18). We must cooperate with God’s work in us (His perfection of us)—see Philippians 2:12. We are called to live godly lives and to submit to God. But the focus of the Bible’s commands is not on others’ perception of us, as is so often the idol of the perfectionist. Instead, the focus is on our heart’s posture toward God. got?

hope this helps !!!
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
doesn't matter what the KJV translates the word in the Greek is what counts.

4238 prássō – properly, the active process in performing (accomplishing) a deed, and implying what is done as a regular practice – i.e. a routine or habit

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4238: πράσσω

πράσσω and (once viz. Acts 17:7 R G) πράττω; future πράξω; 1 aorist ἔπραξα; perfect πέπραχά; perfect passive participle πεπραγμενος; from Homer down; the Sept. several times for עָשָׂה and פָּעַל; to do, practise,

nuff said................

Besides, was there any point in your walk with God whereby you fallen into what could be categorized as habitual sin? If so, then you would be condemning yourself, my friend.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,727
✟389,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Besides, was their any point in your walk with God whereby you fallen into what could be categorized as habitual sin? If so, then you would be condemning yourself, my friend.
nice dodge there fella the truth is the KJV is WRONG and the lexicon is RIGHT.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,854
8,379
Dallas
✟1,089,134.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I said we CAN die spiritually because of sin. I don't think it's a question of being "unborn", but rather we are still born again but have quenched the Holy Spirit. I don't think we can be born again twice. I haven't found any scripture that clearly states that. The only way to be "unborn" from my view, is by renouncing Christ, and that is blasphemy against the Spirit, where there is no return.

I don’t believe that is the unforgivable sin or blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I believe never coming to repentance is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I believe Romans 11 17-23 is evidence of this.

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:17-23‬ ‭NASB
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You can say that until you are blue in the face and I will never believe your position because it makes Gods word a lie and His promises untrue. Sinless perfection is not of God.


Question: "Is sinless perfection possible in this life?"

Answer:
Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.

It is true that the Bible calls us to be “perfect as [our] heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48). The Greek word for “perfect” here is telios. It means “brought to its end, completed, or perfect.” So, to be “perfect” in this sense is not how perfectionists so often imagine it. Rather, it is to be completed in Christ. Philippians 1:6 says that completion is the work of God. He created us, saved us, and is faithful to perfect us.

This is not to say that we have no responsibility to grow in our faith (2 Peter 3:18). We must cooperate with God’s work in us (His perfection of us)—see Philippians 2:12. We are called to live godly lives and to submit to God. But the focus of the Bible’s commands is not on others’ perception of us, as is so often the idol of the perfectionist. Instead, the focus is on our heart’s posture toward God. got?

hope this helps !!!

Okay. First, we are not allowed to talk at length Sinless Perfectionism in this section of the forums. Second, you need to quote the source of the article that you are quoting otherwise it is considered plagiarism. In this case, you need to quote Gotquestions as the source of the article. In addition, Gotquestions is a 4 point Calvinistic website. So they don't properly understand what the Bible teaches on sin and salvation. They believe that a son can go prodigal and be saved while he is prodigal.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
nice dodge there fella the truth is the KJV is WRONG and the lexicon is RIGHT.

I am not dodging anything. Here are...

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today.

Do you have even one reason why the Lexicon is divine and the pure Word of God for today?
My guess is that you are blindly taking it by faith in your little Lexicon. Jesus said beware of the scribes. Scribes are those who Tran-SCRIBE the Scriptures. That woud be the scholar in recent years who have made Lexicons. But you just blindly trust them (Despite the warning from our Lord Jesus Christ).
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,854
8,379
Dallas
✟1,089,134.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
nice dodge there fella the truth is the KJV is WRONG and the lexicon is RIGHT.

Yes I agree with you in this matter. The KJV has injected commentaries added into it. The translation is catered to reformed theology. I prefer the NASB or ASV which are a more literal word for word translation without the interpreters theological interpretations added into it. Here’s just one of the many examples of the translation being edited in order to cater to reformed theology.


“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NASB

This may on the exterior seem like no big deal but the idea behind it is to promote Calvinism that God’s patience is only towards the elect not towards all. To change the word from you to us-ward is changing the word of God to make it better fit a particular theology rather than letting the word say what it was originally intended to say.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
@Jesus is YHWH

Do you believe that the prodigal son was saved while he was prodigal?
If so, then how can you not see that as living in habitual sin (or in practicing sin)?
The prodigal son was squandering his inheritance on prostitutes. So he obviously was living in a lifestyle of sin away from his father. So by your own admission, a practicing sinner is not saved. So this means the prodigal son was not saved on the account of his sin.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes I agree with you in this matter. The KJV has injected commentaries added into it. The translation is catered to reformed theology. I prefer the NASB or ASV which are a more literal word for word translation without the interpreters theological interpretations added into it. Here’s just one of the many examples of the translation being edited in order to cater to reformed theology.

I disagree. The KJB actually refutes Calvinism and or Reformed thinking in many places. The NASB and ASV come from Westcott and Hort's corrupted Greek text like all Modern Translations. Their work was a departure from the Textus Receptus.

You said:
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NASB

This may on the exterior seem like no big deal but the idea behind it is to promote Calvinism that God’s patience is only towards the elect not towards all. To change the word from you to us-ward is changing the word of God to make it better fit a particular theology rather than letting the word say what it was originally intended to say.

I don't see how this is in favor of Calvinism. They both say the same thing except the KJB includes the writer or other body of believers. Actually, Calvinists originally favored the Geneva Bible when coming over here to the States. In creation of the KJB: I believe God used two different groups of imperfect believers (despite their own wrong beliefs) to create a perfect work (i.e. the KJB). The king checked their work and they had to peer review each other's work in smaller teams or groups. The result in time of the KJB eventually led to the fruit of John Wesley (who rekindled the fires of revival for the teaching on Sanctification).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,727
✟389,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am not dodging anything. Here are...

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today.

Do you have even one reason why the Lexicon is divine and the pure Word of God for today?
My guess is that you are blindly taking it by faith in your little Lexicon. Jesus said beware of the scribes. Scribes are those who Tran-SCRIBE the Scriptures. That woud be the scholar in recent years who have made Lexicons. But you just blindly trust them (Despite the warning from our Lord Jesus Christ).
the KJV is no more inspired than the NASB is bh. That is another one of your heretical beliefs. It the original docs that are inspired.

any more fallacious arguments you care to make today ?

next..................
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,727
✟389,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes I agree with you in this matter. The KJV has injected commentaries added into it. The translation is catered to reformed theology. I prefer the NASB or ASV which are a more literal word for word translation without the interpreters theological interpretations added into it. Here’s just one of the many examples of the translation being edited in order to cater to reformed theology.


“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NASB

This may on the exterior seem like no big deal but the idea behind it is to promote Calvinism that God’s patience is only towards the elect not towards all. To change the word from you to us-ward is changing the word of God to make it better fit a particular theology rather than letting the word say what it was originally intended to say.
Amen
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
the KJV is no more inspired than the NASB is bh. That is another one of your heretical beliefs. It the original docs that are inspired.

any more fallacious arguments you care to make today ?

next..................

You mean the original documents that you don't have. So you don't have a perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands, right? So then how can you know which Bible is true? Not all Hebrew and Greek manuscripts even agree with each other.

I mean, what is ridiculous is that you believe God inspired the originals and yet He wasted that effort on doing that because He failed to preserve that work today. That is why this position is simply dumb. Why inspire the originals if there is no preservation of those originals? It means that YOU or some other religious guy gets to determine what God's Word says instead of being placed under the authority of what God's Word actually says.
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,727
✟389,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You mean the original documents that you don't have. So you don't have a perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands, right? So then how can you know which Bible is true? Not all Hebrew and Greek manuscripts even agree with each other.

I mean, what is ridiculous is that you believe God inspired the originals and yet He wasted that effort on doing that because He failed to preserve that work today. That is why this position is simply dumb. Why inspire the originals if there is no preservation of those originals? It means that YOU or some other religious guy gets to determine what God's Word says instead of being placed under the authority of what God's Word actually says.
you stick with your kjv only heretical teaching and I consult the other translations that are as reliable if not more so than the one you use.
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,727
✟389,997.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
its like brainwashing which is typical of most cults- they have no tolerance for another's POV. Only theirs is the truth and all others are excluded. That is the mentality of the cults, not christians.

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity !
 
Upvote 0

RickReads

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2020
3,433
1,068
60
richmond
✟72,331.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Ok here’s the questions



Here’s post 210




Post 210 doesn’t answer these questions. The only explanation you gave was that these people were not elected by God to which I replied was Paul and Timothy elected by God and you didn’t reply to that one. So no you didn’t actually explain anything you threw out a minimalist vague drive by post that didn’t fit the situation then bounced out of the discussion with this I’m not explaining it again garbage. Obviously Paul, Timothy and Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were elected by God.

Suggesting that Paul and Timothy might consider doing the things they were talking about in those passages was just too ridiculous of an assertion to comment on. Anything I would have to say about that would only insult you. I avoided commenting on that angle of your questions because I have nothing but contempt for it. Very useless question IMO.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You mean the original documents that you don't have. So you don't have a perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands, right? So then how can you know which Bible is true? Not all Hebrew and Greek manuscripts even agree with each other.

I mean, what is ridiculous is that you believe God inspired the originals and yet He wasted that effort on doing that because He failed to preserve that work today. That is why this position is simply dumb. Why inspire the originals if there is no preservation of those originals? It means that YOU or some other religious guy gets to determine what God's Word says instead of being placed under the authority of what God's Word actually says.

Episode 2:

Episode 3:

Here is a link to all seven episodes, plus a bonus featurette video.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdD7_B3zweu0qi_gUHA9W_0JxSM_jT0zj
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,320,506.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
its like brainwashing which is typical of most cults- they have no tolerance for another's POV. Only theirs is the truth and all others are excluded. That is the mentality of the cults, not christians.

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity !

Actually this video addresses your false accusation.

Episode 5:
 
Upvote 0

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
70
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ahh. I see. So what happens if we do kill, rape, and steal and do all sorts of evil? Is such a person abiding in Christ? Does Jesus forgive the sins of those who don’t abide in Him? In order to receive forgiveness of our sins we must repent and turn back to Christ. We must hear and follow to be His sheep.

If they are abiding in christ, they are saved children of God. disobedient but saved. the will have to pay the consequences of those sins. God may also kill them early and take them home for thei shaming of His name.

If they acknowoledge their wrong then 1 John 1:9 applies to them as much as to teh one who tella a little white lie.

We only repent once in order to be saved. After that we acknowledge (confess) our acts of sin to God to have our fellowship restored. Our relationship is not affected by sin, for our sin was paid for by Jesus.
 
Upvote 0