What about Judas?

[Christy4Christ]

Someone just last night told me that The Church gave Judas absolution? Is this tale or truth? I know that when I was watching the Passion I was tempted to feel a little sorry for him. Actually if you think about it, he was just doing what was already part of God's plan. It was already foretold. Another thought is that even when Jesus knew Judas would be the one to betray Him, He still loved him and fellowshipped with him. Does this mean that Jesus had forgiven Judas in advance?

I was reminded of the story about St. Joan of Arc, when she told Charles that she forgave him in advance (in not so many words), she said " Just know that I know that whatever you do you are doing because it is God's will"

I have been wondering about Judas since seeing the movie.

Any thoughts?

 

[Gen 22:14]

Someone just last night told me that The Church gave Judas absolution? Is this tale or truth? I know that when I was watching the Passion I was tempted to feel a little sorry for him. Actually if you think about it, he was just doing what was already part of God's plan. It was already foretold. Another thought is that even when Jesus knew Judas would be the one to betray Him, He still loved him and fellowshipped with him. Does this mean that Jesus had forgiven Judas in advance?

I was reminded of the story about St. Joan of Arc, when she told Charles that she forgave him in advance (in not so many words), she said " Just know that I know that whatever you do you are doing because it is God's will"

I have been wondering about Judas since seeing the movie.

Any thoughts?

Hmmmmm..... I have no clue what the Church did in this matter, but I would say that if She did grant absolution then there is a very sound scriptural basis for doing so! Mat 27:3 "Then Judas repented..." This is a very authoritative source for his "examination of conscience" and resultant absolution and penance. Don't knowl....my thoughts only.

Donna

 

[Christy4Christ]

But he also committed suicide...

 

[Gen 22:14]

But he also committed suicide...

But here too, was he so out of his mind in agony over what he had done that he was forgiven this sin too? I mean I believe the Church teaches that a sin is a sin only to the degree that it was committed with foreknowledge and intention. Ok, so he repented his actions in betraying Jesus, lost his mind and killed himself? Don't know!

But I DO know that he played his part in our salvation, and Jesus knew beforehand that he would do this IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FATHER'S WILL. So perhaps some indulgance was alloted for playing his role in the Divine Plan of Salvation?


Donna

 

[kimber1]

don't know if this is showing everywhere or not but here where i live there's a show coming on monday night at 9 est on ABC called "Judas".

 

[Christy4Christ]

don't know if this is showing everywhere or not but here where i live there's a show coming on monday night at 9 est on ABC called "Judas".

Well, to be honest I have a feeling this is one movie we should be very cautious about watching. Make sure someone very knowledgable is there to answer questions or help you see any errors. I have a funny feeling that the timing on the release of this movie is no coincidence.

 

[kimber1]

Well, to be honest I have a feeling this is one movie we should be very cautious about watching. Make sure someone very knowledgable is there to answer questions or help you see any errors. I have a funny feeling that the timing on the release of this movie is no coincidence.

true enough i'm going to see "the Passion" this coming w/e FINALLY!!!!!!!!! but i am also interested in watching this one. one problem i have in just seeing the commercials for it is it seems to portray Judas as someone we should feel sorry for and who didn't specifically really WANT to do what he did. *shrugs* i just love all religious films but i've got my mind open on this one

 

[Christy4Christ]

Well The Passion sort of portrayed Judas in a way that could make you feel bad for him, I think anyway...

I know there is one scene it is the one where he is giving back the money to the Jewish leaders saying "I don't want this money!" where I could not stop myself from crying and feeling horrible for him!

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I don't know the absolute answer either, we will have to see what happens when we talk to God. The Bible does call Judas the Son of Perdition.

[size=+1]perdition[/size]

[size=-1]SYLLABICATION:[/size]per·di·tion

[size=-1]PRONUNCIATION:[/size][size=-2]AUDIO:[/size] p

r-d

sh

n
[size=-2]KEY[/size]


[size=-1]NOUN:[/size]

1a. Loss of the soul; eternal damnation. b. Hell: “Him the Almighty Power/Hurl'd headlong . . . /To bottomless perdition, there to dwell” (John Milton).
2. Archaic Utter ruin.

[size=-1]ETYMOLOGY:[/size]

Middle English perdicion, from Old French, from Late Latin perditi

, perditi

n-, from Latin perditus, past participle of perdere, to lose : per-, per- + dare, to give; see d - in Appendix I.


Sounds pretty bad to me, but I'll leave the final judgement to God

 

[Gen 22:14]

I don't know the absolute answer either, we will have to see what happens when we talk to God. The Bible does call Judas the Son of Perdition.

Sounds pretty bad to me, but I'll leave the final judgement to God

I agree, it does sound pretty horrific! However, here we get to the debate again as to whether or not an all-loving, all-just God would pre-ordain someone to go to Hell! The Bible says He wills no one to be lost! Go figure!

Donna

 

[Disciple 3]

It is pretty sad that a man who ate with Jesus could possibly be in hell. But the truth is, he chose money as his God and he killed himself. This is destroying the temple of God and it is Murder. A fitting name, "Son of Perdition".

I pray he will be forgiven in the end, but his title implies otherwise.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

It is pretty sad that a man who ate with Jesus could possibly be in hell. But the truth is, he chose money as his God and he killed himself. This is destroying the temple of God and it is Murder. A fitting name, "Son of Perdition".

I pray he will be forgiven in the end, but his title implies otherwise.

My thoughts exactly; My heart breaks in seeing him so overcome with guilt that he throws the money back at those he betrayed our Lord to, and I have felt sorrow so deep that death seems deserved. God had mercy on me, I pray for mercy for Judas, but it is the Father's decision, not mine.
Just as our Lord prayed in Gethsemane : "not my will, but thine be done."

 

[artnalex]

I agree, it does sound pretty horrific! However, here we get to the debate again as to whether or not an all-loving, all-just God would pre-ordain someone to go to Hell!

Donna,
"all-loving" and "all-just" has nothing to do with Judas' actions. If Judas helped in the plot to have Christ jailed for treason (and accepted money in return: basically sold Jesus out for 30 shillings) after Christ had befriended him and made him privy to things that others were not yet aware of, then perhaps the name "son of perdition" is appropriate. and just.

But, I think you are working on the assumption that because Judas has been named the "son of perdition" that it must have been God's plan for that to happen. I don't think that is the case. Remembr that the NT scripture was written AFTER Judas had died. So to look at Judas in retrospect (as the gospel writers did) and call him the "son of perdition" (after knowing what he had done to Jesus, and how he killed himself) does not mean that it was pre-ordained from God. They merely remembered what had happened, and the likelyhood of him going to hell - and then named him such. I'm not saying Judas is in hell, but I would think it is likely. Only God knows, right?

Remember, we do not believe in the type of predestination that Calvinist's do. So, Judas was not pre-ordained (created for that purpose) to subvert Jesus' ministry.

The Bible says He wills no one to be lost! Go figure!

Donna

That is true, however, not everyone does His will.

 

[Christy4Christ]

I agree with this as well but I heard last night from a Catholic that The Church had given Judas absolution...this is what I am wondering about. Is this true? I am hoping someone here will know one way or another..

 

[Christy4Christ]

I am still waiting for someone to answer my question.

 

[nyj]

I have never heard of this. I think the official answer is: We don't know where Judas is.

I have never heard of him being given absolution (which makes it hard to prove a negative). Absolution, afaik, requires the penitent to express remorse typically in the Sacrament of Confession, and since Judas hasn't gone to Confession in a long time... it wouldn't be the Church's place to do this.

 

[Christy4Christ]

I have never heard of this. I think the official answer is: We don't know where Judas is.

I have never heard of him being given absolution (which makes it hard to prove a negative). Absolution, afaik, requires the penitent to express remorse typically in the Sacrament of Confession, and since Judas hasn't gone to Confession in a long time... it wouldn't be the Church's place to do this.

This is exactly what I thought and that is why I was amazed to hear that! I am going to ask the person to provide a source for this information. If he does post something I will let everyone know where he came off with it...

 

[Michelina]

The fact that Our Lord said "It would be better for him not to have been born" implies eternal damnation. Although the Church has never declared this expressly, she has forbidden the preaching of the contrary. The great Saint Vincent Ferrer is the most famous example of this.

ALSO: we must also remember that fulfillment of a prophecy must be understood as fulfillment of something God foreknew and spoke about (in the past) so that when it happened it could be recognized for what it was. Prophecy doesn't compel Judas or anyone. It merely states the free decision God, in His omniprescience, saw him make.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Right, I just wish it didn't feel so bad to think about how sorry he must have felt afterwards. Does that make any sense? It isn't that I feel sorry for him, I have spent my whole life actually hating him for what he did. Now with the Passion and seeing it in that light it seems horrible that he had to meet that fate.

Actually I guess I do feel sorry for him, I feel sorry for anyone that acts in such a way as to **** themselves to Hell

 

[KennySe]

In the booklet "A Guide to The Passion: 100 questions about 'The Passion of The Christ"? www.ascenionpress.com , is question "#29) Who was Judas?."

In the 4-paragraph answer is this bit:

He even says to the priests and scribes with whom he collaborated, "I have sinned in betraying innocent blood (Matthew 27:4). This shows that Judas wasn't totally without concscience. Even so, this rremorse was not followed by the virtue of hope- a hope that he could be forgiven. The Bible reveals that after he cast the thirty pieces of ilver on the Temple floor he went out and hanged himself (see Matthew 27:5). He could have been a great saint had he recovered from his sin as Peter did. Instead, he despaired of God's mercy and chose death.​

Realize that the booklet is not official Church teaching.

It is written by the editors of CatholicExchange, and the following authors cntributed to the book:
Tom Allen
Marcellino D'Ambrosio, PhD.
Matthew Pinto
Mark Shea
Paul Thigpen, Ph.D.
.