What "a-gnostic" really means!

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

"gnosis" or "gnostic" means "knowledge" in Greek (γνῶσι&#962.
The Prefix "a" means "not" or "without".
Thus: a-gnostic = "Not/Without Knowledge"

2 Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God..."

Psalms 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Psalms 53:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool..."

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:"
...
​

Yes, it looks like scripture has been right all along; and the agnostics admit it! In fact, most agnostics admit they are without knowledge, without any knowledge that they are admitting to being without knowledge, lol!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. I'm NOT referring to Gnosticism, but ONLY to the greek work "gnosis" or "gnostic" which just means "knowledge". Gnosticism is a dangerous heresy which denies the most basic principles of Christianity.

 

[Patzak]

Gnosticism or agnosticism does not have to be a universal position: one can be agnostic regarding the question of God for example but gnostic regarding some other question. So saying that one is an agnostic does not neccesarilly mean that they are "admitting to being without any knowledge".

And secondly, I take gnosticism and agnosticism as a bit more than just statements equal to "I know" and "I don't know". I've generally seen it used to describe a general epistemologic position - ie. an agnostic is not claiming only that he doesn't know God, he's claiming that it's impossible to know him. So he's not admitting to being a fool or anything: he's saying that yes, he doesn't know whether there is a God or not - but also that you don't know it either but only think you know. So in an agnostic's view, you're actually the deluded one: you think you know something that you really don't; while the agnostic, like Socrates, at least knows that he doesn't know.

 

[SedjmNeter]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

Christianity is a dangerous heresy which denies Gnosis.

SHEM HETEP

Begin All Acts And Thinking By Using El Kuluwm, The All

 

[levi501]

And secondly, I take gnosticism and agnosticism as a bit more than just statements equal to "I know" and "I don't know". I've generally seen it used to describe a general epistemologic position - ie. an agnostic is not claiming only that he doesn't know God, he's claiming that it's impossible to know him. So he's not admitting to being a fool or anything: he's saying that yes, he doesn't know whether there is a God or not - but also that you don't know it either but only think you know. So in an agnostic's view, you're actually the deluded one: you think you know something that you really don't; while the agnostic, like Socrates, at least knows that he doesn't know.

When someone says their agnostic, you shouldn't assume they are asserting that knowledge is unknowable. Agnoticism simply means they are without knowledge. This is what makes it compatible with theism and atheism.
Agnostic theism - I don't know if there is a God, but I choose to believe.
Agnostic atheism - I don't know if there is a God and I see no compelling reason to believe in one.

 

[Patzak]

When someone says their agnostic, you shouldn't assume they are asserting that knowledge is unknowable. Agnoticism simply means they are without knowledge. This is what makes it compatible with theism and atheism.
Agnostic theism - I don't know if there is a God, but I choose to believe.
Agnostic atheism - I don't know if there is a God and I see no compelling reason to believe in one.

I see it used in this way as well; but one then runs into the problem of making a distinction between weak atheism and agnosticism. I would call your agnostic atheist a weak atheist, who could then futher be either gnostic or agnostic:

Agnostic weak atheism - I don't know if there is a God and I see no compelling reason to believe in one and also don't think there can be a compelling reason to believe

Gnostic weak atheism - I don't know if there is a God and I see no compelling reason to believe in one; however, such a reason could present itself sometime in the future


Anyway, Wikipedia says:

Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities—are unknown, inherently unknowable, or incoherent, and therefore, (some agnostics may go as far to say) irrelevant to life.

This seems to support my notion of agnosticism (although it also says that thinking something is "unknown" might be enough to consider oneself an agnostic - though the use seems to imply "universally unknown" rather than "unknown to me"); everyday use of the word is another story of course. If you go with that, agnostic probably means wishy-washy or something similar.

 

[Kimberlyann]

When someone admits that he doesn't know the meaning of life, and he doesn't know whether there is a Creator or not, he calls himself "agnostic." This is the haunting admission that he simply does not know. Truly, he does not "know" the Creator of life.

 

[levi501]

I see it used in this way as well; but one then runs into the problem of making a distinction between weak atheism and agnosticism.

There is no problem.
Agnosticism makes no statement of faith... theism/atheism does.

I would call your agnostic atheist a weak atheist,

I would too.

Agnostic weak atheism - I don't know if there is a God and I see no compelling reason to believe in one and also don't think there can be a compelling reason to believe.

I reject this deffinition because it asserts that knowledge is unknowable.
Agnosticism and weak atheism doesn't require you make a positive claim.

Anyway, Wikipedia says:

This seems to support my notion of agnosticism (although it also says that thinking something is "unknown" might be enough to consider oneself an agnostic - though the use seems to imply "universally unknown" rather than "unknown to me"); everyday use of the word is another story of course. If you go with that, agnostic probably means wishy-washy or something similar.

Wikipedia isn't an authority on deffinitions... but if you want to use it, look at weak agnosticism versus strong agnosticism. The former is a view of agnosticism that asserts nothing. This is why at it's root agnosticism is merely a statement of knowledge or lack there of.

 

[levi501]

When someone admits admits that he doesn't know the meaning of life, and he doesn't know whether there is a Creator or not, he calls himself "agnostic." This is the haunting admission that he simply does not know. Truly, he does not "know" the Creator of life.

Most Christians I know are agnostic... meaning they aren't sure if there is a god but they choose to believe in the bible and Jesus regardless. Agnosticism isn't a dirty word. If your a theist as well it's about being honest and confronting your doubts.

 

[Eudaimonist]

"gnosis" or "gnostic" means "knowledge" in Greek (γνῶσι&#962.
The Prefix "a" means "not" or "without".

Thus: a-gnostic = "Not/Without Knowledge"

That's true. Very good.

2 Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God..."

Psalms 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Psalms 53:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool..."

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:"
...

​

Yes, it looks like scripture has been right all along; and the agnostics admit it!

No, agnostics do not "admit" that they are "willingly ignorant", nor do they "admit" that God really exists, nor do they "admit" that they despise wisdom and instruction, nor do they "admit" that they "hate knowledge". They do not admit these things because they are likely not true.

I have no idea why you think that agnostics demonstrate the truth of any of these quotes.


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[Osiris]

The reality is that as of now... everyone, religious person or not, is agnostic regarding God (unless if there are actual people whom god talks to today).

Every religious person alive knows about God through scriptures... those scriptures could be correct or they could be just fiction...

most religious people believe it to be correct without concrete evidence of God... therefore without knowledge, they believe God exists, they believe their scripture is correct. And without knowledge they claim that they know God exists; such claims are mere assumptions.

This is what every religious person now actually says, "I believe that I know that God exists with certainty."

While no one alive (or perhaps no one that has ever lived) will ever say, "I know that God exists."

 

[Kimberlyann]

I don't know about anyone else. But to me, God is as real as anyone I know. I don't believe in God just because I read about Him in a book. I see evidence everywhere I look. I know deep down in my heart that he is real.

 

[levi501]

The reality is that as of now... everyone, religious person or not, is agnostic regarding God (unless if there are actual people whom god talks to today).


While no one alive (or perhaps no one that has ever lived) will ever say, "I know that God exists."

There are people that claim to have talked to God, so I won't make the claim that no one has knowledge of God.

I know a handful of people that have personal evidence of his existance. Now while this isn't evidence to me or anyone else, I can agree that if I had had the same experience I would claim to have knowledge of God also.

This is what every religious person now actually says, "I believe that I know that God exists with certainty."

Not every religious person. Many question, re-examine, reaffirm and dout their faith.

 

[levi501]

I don't know about anyone else. But to me, God is as real as anyone I know. I don't believe in God just because I read about Him in a book. I see evidence everywhere I look. I know deep down in my heart that he is real.

"Everywhere you look" is using the God of Gaps argument. Because you don't know how it got there you insert God and then vualah your question is answered. The second reason, "deep down in your heart" is a combination of moral conditioning and a duality that many of us feel between mind and body. The duality can be explained as a product of our intellect. Our consciousness gives us the ability to know we exist and question it.

 

[Osiris]

I don't know about anyone else. But to me, God is as real as anyone I know. I don't believe in God just because I read about Him in a book. I see evidence everywhere I look. I know deep down in my heart that he is real.

If there was evidence everywhere one looks, then everyone would be theist.

Believing that one sees evidence for God everywhere one looks, Feeling deep down inside that God exists is not really evidence.

Your senstence of "I know deep down in my heart that he is real" is really "I believe I know deep down in my heart that he is real".

 

[Hydra009]

I have no idea why you think that agnostics demonstrate the truth of any of these quotes.

I think you know why - it's just empty rhetoric designed to attack another position. It's not intended to be logically sound or an accurate representation, and indeed, it isn't.

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

"gnosis" or "gnostic" means "knowledge" in Greek (γνῶσι&#962.
The Prefix "a" means "not" or "without".
Thus: a-gnostic = "Not/Without Knowledge"
2 Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God..."

Psalms 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Psalms 53:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool..."

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:"
...
Yes, it looks like scripture has been right all along; and the agnostics admit it! In fact, most agnostics admit they are without knowledge, without any knowledge that they are admitting to being without knowledge, lol!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. I'm NOT referring to Gnosticism, but ONLY to the greek work "gnosis" or "gnostic" which just means "knowledge". Gnosticism is a dangerous heresy which denies the most basic principles of Christianity.

[class]
When in doubt I’ll go ahead and refer to the actual person who coined the term.

The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a–, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gn sis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things”; hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals—“ists,” as he called them—who had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870.

So we see that, although you are close, you have disingenuously used “Gnostic” to mean simply “knowledge” when the term agnostic was obviously coined in reference to what early Christian writers meant as “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things” when they used the word. Therefore agnostic, more appropriately, means “Without knowledge of spiritual things”. Now for homework you have to brush up on your epistemology and tell me what it would mean to “know” spiritual things.
[/class]

 

[variant]

These Bible verses were kind of fun, but none of them have anything to do with agnosticism.

2 Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God..."

I am not willingly ignorant of anything, I would very much like to know if there is or is not a God. I just don't, and I admit I don't.

Psalms 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Agnostics do not hold the position that there is no God. The simply state that they do not know. Some state that they probably can not know.

Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool..."

Then how do you know if the Bible is true? I don't believe you can escape making judgments in your own mind and heart, no matter what you decide. This statement by the Bible cuts at its own foundations.

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

I have devoted my life to the study of what I can study in a reasonably objective manner. I only despise instruction by people who make sweeping assumptions on things they can not show they know.

Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:"
...

I do not hate knowledge I love it. I am an avid empiricist. I don’t believe the probable Bronze Age goat herder that wrote this verse is applying the word knowledge correctly here.

What you would have to explain to me why you are hostile towards people who say they don’t know.

You probably can not move anyone from an agnostic position, only evidence can do that.

 

[Mortensen]

Most Christians I know are agnostic... meaning they aren't sure if there is a god but they choose to believe in the bible and Jesus regardless. Agnosticism isn't a dirty word. If your a theist as well it's about being honest and confronting your doubts.

Hmm... a little mind blower