Yeah but the problem is; only one can be right! Because they contridict each other, the rest must be wrong
K
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@ Ken's post # 93, the last question: None of us can fathom all of it. Consider a diamond; just one facet can reflect the same light in seemingly endless ways, depending on your POV. G-d is like that, but we are talking about a "diamond" with literally infinite facets ...
Obviously God has decided that it doesn't need to be better than what we have now. Have you considered why He might make that decision? If God is good which He says He is, then there must be a good reason for it. What do you think that [good] reason could be?
Alright, alright, there's no need to be defensive over it.
I take back anything that was wrong, but I won't take anything back that was relevant to the discussion.
Given time, I'm sure down the track this would be debunked or declared as something else. For an example: Jesus preformed miracles, now 2000 years later we have the 'Jesus myth', declaring he never existed to begin with.
Now, the question is, when God speaks, is it external or internal?
Though God is capable of both, speaking externally is the exception, not the rule. In Christianity, God has chosen to speak to the masses through the bible as according to scripture:
Isaiah 55:11
2 Timothy 3:16 - 17
To be honest, I think it would bring about even more confusion. If God were to speak audibly, what should he say? What would you want him to say? Every individual has their own questions and their own doubts that needs to be addressed. A written word has more of a chance of successfully achieving that purpose. I don't have a problem with God declaring himself audibly, but Christians have to respect why he does or doesn't. After you hear him, next you would want to see him, after you see him, he must prove himself by remaining seen, to prove his divinity he must preform more and more extravagant miracles to satisfy etc. Though a simple request, God then becomes a servant rather than a master. God has already demonstrated his humility through Christ. Faith in his word (for the Christian) cuts right through these expectations.
Or as C.S Lewis put it:
I gave in, and admitted that God was God.
I should of explained this right from the first post...
Yeah but the problem is; only one can be right! Because they contridict each other, the rest must be wrong
K
I find it amazing that people can look at the same instruction manual on how to put something together, and they will come to the same conclusion of what needs to be done; yet those same people will look at a Bible (or what-ever holy book) that is supposed to be written by a perfect God and everybody who reads it will come to a different conclusion what needs to be done,
Don't you think though that "bigotry, hatred and divisions" are the result of someone failing to apply a part of that handbook? Do you not know that the handbook teaches us the opposite behavior? Your behavior counts too, why is it that you demonstrate bigotry hatred and division while I don't?I find it amazing that people can look at the same instruction manual on how to put something together, and they will come to the same conclusion of what needs to be done; yet those same people will look at a Bible (or what-ever holy book) that is supposed to be written by a perfect God and everybody who reads it will come to a different conclusion what needs to be done, and nobody finds this suspecious.
My personal opinion is that God does not exist; if he did he would be able to write an instruction manual (bible or what-ever) that is just as easy to understand as the ones us flawed and imperfect humans write, and there would be a consistency of what God wants and you wouldn't have the religious bigotry, hatred, and divisions you have today.
Ken
Sorry, I didn't see this before. Look back at my post and see why, no, one does NOT have to be right and the rest wrong. There is no such condition. (Which does not mean that every position is correct)
Yes, that is amazing! Different people need to do different things, and G-d co-ordinates it all.
So it is cherry picking and contortion. Are you admitting that these people are not teaching what Christ teaches? Their message is different to Jesus' message so it is not actually true Christianity that you are describing it is a type of false Christianity with evil motives and evil teaching. When will you decide to look at the true Christianity which is Jesus' teaching? Or are you just going to cry over spilled milk?Oi antz
(quote) Don't you think though that "bigotry, hatred and divisions" are the result of someone failing to apply a part of that handbook?
(reply) I think the bigotry, hatred and divisions are the result of someone picking and choosing specific parts of the bible that confirm their bigotry & hatred, and neglecting to mention the parts that condemn it.
They weren't stealing the donkey they were using it with the master's permission. Do you think it wasn't returned in good condition? If this is how you think then it is no wonder you can't see the message behind the bible. Like the Pharisee's in Jesus' day.(quote) Do you not know that the handbook teaches us the opposite behavior?
(reply) Oh really! Like Thou shall not steal (but then you have Luke 19:29-35)
God commands everyone not to kill, in Numbers He is giving a specific commandment to a specific group of people. There is no way that Numbers 31 can be read and interpreted to mean that we should go out and kill people. There is no other way to read commandment 6 but that we shall not murder. Are you so sure that you don't want to ask Jesus for help? You seem really confused about what the bible says.Or Thou shall not kill (but then you have Numbers 31:17-18)
(quote) Your behavior counts too, why is it that you demonstrate bigotry hatred and division while I don't?
(reply) Seriously?? Are you really pointing a finger at me? What have I said that was bigoted and hateful?
Ken
Again here you are looking for division instead of unity. When Jesus comes it will not matter which religion a person belongs to, those who love Him will be drafted to Him and those who hate Him will be drafted away. This is a biblical truth, spoken by Jesus in Matthew 25. His exact words are this:If God is co-ordinating it all, why do the majority of God believers worship a different God? Does God want mankind to worship someone else other than himself?
K
Yes that is true, but being a good Christian doesn't mean only acknowledging the parts of the bible we like, but it means understanding the parts of the bible that challenge us. This is too hard for evil Christians, who rather than love their neighbor as much as they love themselves, prefer to preach hate in order to justify themselves. It is not humility. The bible teaches humility and love. If you don't accept and practice that then you are not a fit example of a good Christian. Are you one of those atheist's Ken who pretends not to know the difference between a good and bad Christian?I believe good people will use parts the bible to justify their good behavior, and bad people can use parts of the bible to justify their bad behavior. Even Hitler one of the most evil men in history claimed in his book Mein Kemp that he believes he was doing the lords work by defending himself against the Jews. Obviously there are a limitless amount of good people using the bible to justify their good behavior.
Excuse me for interrupting but God has not changed, He's still just as upset about those who worship false gods as He has ever been. Only difference now is that the kingdom of God belongs to Christians, who for the better majority of cases, are more realistic in their application of God's will than the Pharisee's were in Jesus' time.Actually Christianity consists Jesus (God of the New Testament) and the God of the Old Testament.
What can I say about that? We can't just pick and choose when it comes to God otherwise it would be a lie. Jesus is God's son, He always gave glory to "the Father". This is the same God who approached Moses, redeemed Israel from Egypt and led them into Canaan. This is the same God who Jesus believed had impregnated His mother.Ive always considered the teachings of Jesus as being morally superior to the God of the Old Testament. Most of my moral complaints in the bible has to do with the God of the Old Testament; not Jesus. Now if Christians were willing to dismiss the God of the Old Testament and only deal with the New Testament and Jesus, then that would be different; but that's not the case, they want to hang on to the Old as well.
We don't know Jesus' relationship to the owner of the colt, but Jesus did. It's nothing short of bigotry to accuse Jesus of being a thief when you don't know anything about it. If anyone could have called Him a thief it would have been the owner of the colt but that didn't happen did it?Luke 19:29-35 is an example of Jesus instructing his disciples to take a colt that did not belong to any of them. I call that stealing; you can call it whatever you want.
It says you shall not murder. Murder is defined as unlawful killing. Therefore when the law permits then killing is not murder. Since the Canaanites were causing the Israelites to sin, God declared that they must be destroyed. God's people are supposed to be holy. I am out of my depth here, I don't know anything about the nature of the cultures that God hated, I have been told that some of them practiced child sacrifice, it is not a topic I have researched I just think that God knew what was good for His people, and it meant abolishing idolaters.What about Saul? What about Joshua? There are plenty of examples of God giving a specific commandment to kill a specific group of people. Did the 6th commandment say thou shall not kill unless it is a specific group of people? Or did it say thou shall not kill.
Some churches have been formed by dividing themselves from other churches, but you find that Christians don't really know why they belong to one church or another, they just feel more comfortable there. Birds of a feather will flock together. Speaking of denominational divisions, yes it is true that someone once decided not to agree, so in those cases someone is clearly at fault. Paul warns us a lot about being divided, I could fish up those verses if you are interested. For your information I can walk into any church that belongs to Jesus Christ and listen to their message, and generally not find fault with what they say. There are obviously other churches though which are all about squeezing the tithes out of the congregation. Most Christians in those congregations are in bliss because they are overcome with the joy of fellowship.So the various denominations in Christianity are not divisions? Then what do you call them?
I don't know. I keep saying to people who ask me this that Jesus is the one who sits on the throne, He is the one who separates the wheat from the chaff, none of us have any right to finger-point and say "you will burn in hell". All we can really do is listen to each other, identify where growth is required, and as Jesus said to Peter, "feed His sheep".What about the Muslims who love him, but dont see him as the Son of God, they dont believe he was crucified and risen from the dead, they see him as a prophet of Allah? Will they be drafted with him as well? What about those who never even heard of Jesus or the God described in the Bible? If God is co-ordaining it all, why such a conflicting message?
Everything you are saying is bigoted, and hateful. How could you possibly tell me that Jesus stole a donkey? The man who owned it should have been honored to know it was used in the procession of worship.PS Again; what did I say that was hateful and bigoted?
The problem with your analogy is you cant compare a diamond to religious belief because the various rays of a diamond is what makes it beautiful
I think the bigotry, hatred and divisions are the result of someone picking and choosing specific parts of the bible that confirm their bigotry & hatred, and neglecting to mention the parts that condemn it.
Oh really! Like “Thou shall not steal” (but then you have Luke 19:29-35)
Is that what made you say Jesus is a thief? I thought you were serious actually.If Jesus knew the person with the colt I think the bible would have mentioned it. Now if you want to speculate that he knew the person because it makes the situation look better? Go ahead, thats fine but thats not the point; the point is, a person who does bad can find plenty in the bible to justify their bad behavior. History has proven this time and time again.
Ok no problem. I remember this verse:Actually murder is defined as a killing of the innocent. Under your definition, because Hitler, Stalin, and Amin were the law their particular land, the atrocities they committed couldnt be considered murder because the killings were perfectly legal under their laws.
Again this was just another example of how an evil person can find something in the bible to justify their behavior. I mean, if a person is convinced that what Moses did to the Midinites or what Saul did to the Amelikites was perfectly fine because their God okayed it, how much of a leap would it take for that person to go along with a Hitler if this Hitler claims he is doing the lords work by defending himself against the Jews? (as Hitler claimed)
You know, you can call me a bigot, hateful, or what-ever insult you can think of; your words dont hurt me. Im just calling it like it is my friend!
God does us a favor by providing just enough evidence of himself that those who are willing to be in a relationship with him can see it, but those who are not willing aren't forced to.What’s the worst that can happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in an audible voice; in a language that each of us can understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we humans have of him?
Why doesn’t he do it?
Ken
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