Whale Fossils Discovered High Up In Andes Mountains

[twin.spin]

twin.spin,

You are pursuing only one theory of creation - young earth creationism. There are conservative evangelical Christians who consider there is evidence for an older earth than 6,000 - 10,000 years.

These scholars include Gleason Archer, Norman Geisler, Walter Kaiser, Hugh Ross and John Lennox.

Much of the publicity has promoted young earth creationism but there are arguments for an older earth among evangelicals.

Oz

There maybe evangelical Christians who do consider such, however any such argument opposes\questions God's Word. Evolution is the rejection of God and his word, rejection of Jesus' being worthy to receive glory and honor and his power, the rejection of Jesus' purpose for his death on the cross.

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s
so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.

Rev 4:11
You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things,
and by your will they were created and have their being.

Revelation 10:6
And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!​

 

[Colter]

There maybe evangelical Christians who do consider such, however any such argument opposes\questions God's Word. Evolution is the rejection of God and his word, rejection of Jesus' being worthy to receive glory and honor and his power, the rejection of Jesus' purpose for his death on the cross.

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s
so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.

Rev 4:11
You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things,
and by your will they were created and have their being.

Revelation 10:6
And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!​

The authors of the Bible didn't know that life in earth evolved after it was created. The authors of the Bible books didn't claim divine inspiration or inerrancy. The institutional church uses inerrancy to maintain control.

 

[twin.spin]

The authors of the Bible didn't know that life in earth evolved after it was created. The authors of the Bible books didn't claim divine inspiration or inerrancy. The institutional church uses inerrancy to maintain control.

Such an opinion of the Bible not being inerrant \ inspired by God the Holy Spirit does not come from a Christian pov (present or historically ).

(2 Peter 1:20, 21) The Bible claims for itself divine inspiration.
(John 10:35) Jesus teaches the Scriptures cannot be broken …
(John 17:17) Jesus claims God's word is the truth … not some of it.

OT Sabbath was established by God because Genesis' account of creation literally happened.

Jesus came to die for the sins of the world because Genesis' account of the fall of humanity into sin after creation literally happened.

 

[Colter]

Such an opinion of the Bible not being inerrant \ inspired by God the Holy Spirit does not come from a Christian pov (present or historically ).

(2 Peter 1:20, 21) The Bible claims for itself divine inspiration.
(John 10:35) Jesus teaches the Scriptures cannot be broken …
(John 17:17) Jesus claims God's word is the truth … not some of it.

OT Sabbath was established by God because Genesis' account of creation literally happened.

Jesus came to die for the sins of the world because Genesis' account of the fall of humanity into sin after creation literally happened.

The beast was already fallen before he began to tempt Eve.

In the first set of 10 commandments the Israelites said that the creation was the reason for the Sabbath. The second set say it was in remembrance of the Exodus.


12Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox or donkey or any of your livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do. 15Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and outstretched arm. That is why the LORD your God has commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.


The Bible changed over time as mans understanding of God changed.


In the original gospel before the cross, Jesus came to reveal the Father in greater detail.


After the cross the gospel changed and became about Jesus being a human sacrifice for sins.

 

[OzSpen]

Given the way it's gone for you so far, it probably makes sense to bail out. Let us know when you're interested in a serious discussion.

That's a red herring!

 

[OzSpen]

It doesn't include Mt. Ararat. You might want to read it again. Hint: what is the etymology of "Ararat?"

 

[OzSpen]

There maybe evangelical Christians who do consider such, however any such argument opposes\questions God's Word. Evolution is the rejection of God and his word, rejection of Jesus' being worthy to receive glory and honor and his power, the rejection of Jesus' purpose for his death on the cross.

twin.spin,

You seem to presume that Christians who disagree with your young earth creationism are pursuing evolution and reject God's word.

This is not true. I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture but I find nowhere in Scripture that teaches the earth is 6,000 years old - as promoted by creation.com and Answers in Genesis.

Oz

 

[The Barbarian]

Genesis does not say that the Ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat. In fact, Mt. Ararat had a different name (Masis) in Biblical times, and the story actually says that it came to rest in the "mountains of Ararat", which is something altogether different.

The idea that it landed on Mt. Ararat began in the Middle Ages, and is not scriptural. "Ararat" is the Hebrew version of Urartu, "Armenia."

 

[Isaiah60]

The flood myth was a genealogical device of the Israelites who sought to trace their bloodlines back to Adam of Mesopotamian lore whom they assumed was the first human.


The old, evolved earth was already populated and fallen when Adam and Eve arrived.

That's merely a Dawin/Wellhausen hypothesis which has no basis in fact. Every nation has a Flood legend and they basically all tell the same story. Though as I mentioned before the Biblical ark floats whereas the other legends, such as the Babylonian legend, build arks in their accounts that sink.
Everything from dinosaurs, birds, insects, mammals and man are found in sedimentary rock. This was not the result of some asteroid 65-m.y.a that sent a firestorm around the earth. While neither I or anyone else can convince you of anything, the harmonization of history and science strongly support the Flood over all these other made up accounts that simply do not hold water.

Also, the bloodlines back to Adam which are traced in the Bible do not claim to support the origin of the Hebrew people. The Bible records the origin of the Hebrews coming from Abraham, not Adam. While all men come from Adam, there is no national origin claimed for him other than he was the first man. Genesis 10 accounts for the origen of all other ancient nations which stemmed from Adam and his descendant. This includes the Sumerians (Biblical Shinar) and the Egyptians (Biblical Egypt). Abraham himself came from the city of Ur, which during his time, was a Sumerian city. Abraham came many generations after Noah.

Other accounts of origins from ancient civilizations do not account for other nations due to their national pride. That is not the case with the Bible which includes all the nations of the ancient world and the first ancestors to settle in those regions after the Flood.

 

[Colter]

That's merely a Dawin/Wellhausen hypothesis which has no basis in fact. Every nation has a Flood legend and they basically all tell the same story. Though as I mentioned before the Biblical ark floats whereas the other legends, such as the Babylonian legend, build arks in their accounts that sink.
Everything from dinosaurs, birds, insects, mammals and man are found in sedimentary rock. This was not the result of some asteroid 65-m.y.a that sent a firestorm around the earth. While neither I or anyone else can convince you of anything, the harmonization of history and science strongly support the Flood over all these other made up accounts that simply do not hold water.

Also, the bloodlines back to Adam which are traced in the Bible do not claim to support the origin of the Hebrew people. The Bible records the origin of the Hebrews coming from Abraham, not Adam. While all men come from Adam, there is no national origin claimed for him other than he was the first man. Genesis 10 accounts for the origen of all other ancient nations which stemmed from Adam and his descendant. This includes the Sumerians (Biblical Shinar) and the Egyptians (Biblical Egypt). Abraham himself came from the city of Ur, which during his time, was a Sumerian city. Abraham came many generations after Noah.

Other accounts of origins from ancient civilizations do not account for other nations due to their national pride. That is not the case with the Bible which includes all the nations of the ancient world and the first ancestors to settle in those regions after the Flood.

Nations have flood legends because they happen all the time.

Does it not occur to you that the flood would have killed all the civilizations on earth that have flood legends?!?!?!? ONLY Noah and his family survived according to the dubious story, but no other culture remembers what would be their spectacular relationship. The Chinese people from ancient dynasty's don't take the Israelites spectacular claims very seriously. Nor the Australian Aborigines who have been in Australia for 70,000 years.

 

[Isaiah60]

Nations have flood legends because they happen all the time.

Does it not occur to you that the flood would have killed all the civilizations on earth that have flood legends?!?!?!? ONLY Noah and his family survived according to the dubious story, but no other culture remembers what would be their spectacular relationship. The Chinese people from ancient dynasty's don't take the Israelites spectacular claims very seriously. Nor the Australian Aborigines who have been in Australia for 70,000 years.

First, I have read all these various ancient accounts and there are three of them in North America. This Flood was not a local Flood nor is there any hint given that it was. The Sumerian king's list is divided between the Flood. The legends begins with Noah and his family and is told and retold as the population of earth increases and expands all over the world. In time the details of the account would become subject to national pride and interpretation, but the main theme of the account never changed. If you read these Flood accounts its impossible to get a local Flood when the mountains of the world are covered in water and the ark rest of the mountain tops. You can read the Biblical account or the Atrahasis epic or the Gilgamesh epic. They are all very old and tell us the deluge covered the earth. It's the Biblical account that stands the test of science since that ark can float.

 

[Colter]

First, I have read all these various ancient accounts and there are three of them in North America. This Flood was not a local Flood nor is there any hint given that it was. The Sumerian king's list is divided between the Flood. The legends begins with Noah and his family and is told and retold as the population of earth increases and expands all over the world. In time the details of the account would become subject to national pride and interpretation, but the main theme of the account never changed. If you read these Flood accounts its impossible to get a local Flood when the mountains of the world are covered in water and the ark rest of the mountain tops. You can read the Biblical account or the Atrahasis epic or the Gilgamesh epic. They are all very old and tell us the deluge covered the earth. It's the Biblical account that stands the test of science since that ark can float.

Wouldn't the people in North American who wrote the three stories have been drown in the flood?

 

[twin.spin]

twin.spin,

You seem to presume that Christians who disagree with your young earth creationism are pursuing evolution and reject God's word.

This is not true. I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture but I find nowhere in Scripture that teaches the earth is 6,000 years old - as promoted by creation.com and Answers in Genesis.

Oz

Oz,
God's Word does not teach a "old earth" neither nor evolution (which in my experience are cousins to one an other).

As Christians, our starting point is that Scripture is always true and truthful. (Numbers 23:19; John 17:17) That means that if Scripture says one thing and other sources say something else, we side with Scripture. Biblical chronologies—though incomplete—suggest that God created the world within the past 6,000 to 10,000 years.

A careful reading of Scripture teaches that when God created everything … that also included a fully mature world, so objects \ people \ animals \ plants had age at the very beginning of time.

 

[Isaiah60]

Wouldn't the people in North American who wrote the three stories have been drown in the flood?

No. All people come from ancient Mesopotamia and from there migrated to other lands. The story of the Flood traveled with them. Think about it. the most ancient accounts antedate the North American accounts. Yet its the same story told with minor changes to the details and in different languages.
Now I've studies his for years and for me this is easy to grasp. But I do understand that when someone is new to this discussion that the issue seems very complex. But its true. All the Flood accounts are historically reliable in the sense that they all confirm over and over against that such a great Flood did indeed happen. The question of which is the true account between the Babylonian and Biblical accounts is what most people are asking about. Valid question. The original account is the one where the details pass scientific examination. There have been numerous tests done with smaller models of the ark in wave tanks which prove that the dimensions of the ark in the Bible were perfect to accomplish the task it was built to do. Nobody had that good of ship building technology in either the Antediluvian period or the Post-diluvian period. Yet the dimensions of the ark are amazingly constructed to handle the waves and to circular air throughout the ark. The Babylonian ark, with its dimensions of 120x120x120 cubits, would not either float or circulate air. Nine decks high and this giant cube would have been emerged approximately 60 cubits under water. With that much under water, air circulation is questionable. Water pressure would rip open the seams and this large cube would sink. So its clear to me that the details in the Biblical account hold water, where as the Babylonian account does not. Yet both tell a true historical account of an event that would be never forgotten.

 

[Isaiah60]

Whale bones are all eaten till nothing of the carcass remains as this video proves.

 

[Isaiah60]

When whales die they don't just become fossils. It takes special conditions for fossilization to occur. These conditions are rare.

 

[The Barbarian]

When whales die they don't just become fossils. It takes special conditions for fossilization to occur. These conditions are rare.

Pretty much like fossilization of humans is rare. But like whales, it happens sometimes. It's why the earth isn't filled with whale fossils and human fossils.

 

[Isaiah60]

Pretty much like fossilization of humans is rare. But like whales, it happens sometimes. It's why the earth isn't filled with whale fossils and human fossils.

You don't get it. Whales don't become fossils at death! Nothing that dies becomes a fossil. The conditions for fossilization that would cause whale fossils to be discovered in the Andes would be the rapid burial caused by the Flood. The video below is scientific proof whale carcasses and their bone are eaten until they are gone. No fossil.

The whales discovered in the Andes were caught up in the sediments of the raging Flood which trapped whales trying to stay near the surface of the water.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,
God's Word does not teach a "old earth" neither nor evolution (which in my experience are cousins to one an other).

As Christians, our starting point is that Scripture is always true and truthful. (Numbers 23:19; John 17:17)

twin.spin,

I agree that the Scriptures are always true because God is a God of truth.

But I also agree that human interpreters are fallible and not always correct.

Please direct me to Scriptures that support the view - or state- that the earth is 6,000 years old.

Oz

 

[Isaiah60]

twin.spin,

I agree that the Scriptures are always true because God is a God of truth.

But I also agree that human interpreters are fallible and not always correct.

Please direct me to Scriptures that support the view - or state- that the earth is 6,000 years old.

Oz

The chronology of the Bible is debated. But most scholars agree that the chronology from creation till now is between 6000-to-10000 years old.

This also includes the entire universe. The universe was created within the time frame of 6000-to-10000 years ago by Biblical calculations. Since its creation, the universe has ages billions of years but the earth still remains 6000-to-10000 years in earth standard time.

You may ask: How can the universe been created 6000-to-10000 years ago and be billions of years old at the same time? Fair question and one that demands an answer.

Einstein's GR revealed that clocks on higher elevations ticked faster than clocks on lower elevations. Thus this was used to prove his theory of GR. Now Gravitational Time Dilation tells us the not only is time in space relative, but also that the fabric of time itself is distorted. This gravity distorts time. This time distortion ages the universe which is GR 101.

But there is another view that also sheds much light to help explain how a young universe can also be billions of years old from the time of its creation. We know about Gravitational Time Dilation, but that coupled with Alan Guth's theory of Inflation reveals to us that YEC may just be on to something. I've watched the Science Channel for years and in this time I've seen those honest moments in documentaries where evolutionists say the universe may be young or it may be old---"nobody knows," they say. But they go into theory of why they believe it is old.

Inflation teaches us that the universe itself came into existence in just a nanosecond. This theory is well supported by evolutionists today and even to me it makes sense. But when did this nanosecond occur: thousands of years ago or billions of years ago from our understanding of time? For Inflation in its basic theory supports the Biblical narrative: And God said: "Let there be light," and all within a nanosecond....there was light! The next question is since the universe began with light, how and when did that blazing light of glory decrease? What we the conditions immediately after this light? Some of these questions are left to science conjecture. But when we look at the bare naked facts, we see how the universe did appear within the nanosecond of time it says in the Bible and is agreed by Guth's theory of Inflation. Plus the aging of the universe through Gravitational Time Dilation gives us a puzzle to solve in the universe which, to be blatantly honest, is a matter of faith. Almost all the knowledge of cosmology and cosmogony is based on conjecture. Thus theories are put fourth and you either accept those theories or reject them. But the basic principles of Einstein's GR are not conjecture and considered reliable physics in all generations.