Western Rite

[RobNJ]

Could someone enumerate what things are strange or foreign in the Byzantine Rite that are mitigated in the Western ? IOW, what is done in the WR that makes a Westerner feel more at home ? Other than organs for keyboard pounders

Besides the organ grinders (sans monkey), it's basically either a Rite I Episcopal, or Catholic Mass, without fillioque.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

I think the WR especially appeals to former Anglicans/Episcopalians, because it is very very similar to the older, traditional rites in the Anglican communion. And the inside of the church would look like the inside of a traditional Episcopal/Anglican church. IOW, it's a Western expression of Orthodox theology.

Mary

 

[Llauralin]

A friend and I were talking about this yesterday -- apparently, as has been noted already, the majority of Western Rite churches are very much like high Anglican liturgics with Orthodox beliefs. He was saying that there's another option, but it's very rare: pre-schism Catholic liturgics, which, apperently, is quite difficult because it's in Latin, there aren't any standard service books, services are very long, and there are a lot more moving sections (whatever it's called -- where what's said and chanted changes according to the day's relation to Pascha, feasts, what saints are celebrated that day, etc.), and hardly (if any) any legitimate priests are willing to do it. Chanting is pretty much Gregorian chant, in Latin.

The ancient Catholic version of Western Rite Orthodoxy sounded very cool, though, should there be any churches who did it.

 

[Melethiel]

and there are a lot more moving sections (whatever it's called -- where what's said and chanted changes according to the day's relation to Pascha, feasts, what saints are celebrated that day, etc.),

They're called Propers. And Gregorian chant is awesome.

 

[Llauralin]

[/COLOR]They're called Propers. And Gregorian chant is awesome.

Thanks.

It most certainly 'tis. But can it be sung with an organ?

 

[Melethiel]

It most certainly 'tis. But can it be sung with an organ?

Considering that organs were first coming into widespread use in the 10th century, most definitely.

 

[gtsecc]

Thanks.

It most certainly 'tis. But can it be sung with an organ?

Yes. I would dare to say it is the norm.
AT least at my parish - which uses the same liturgy we are talking about.

 

[theoforos]

Four bare walls and a lone empty cross? Yes, that would be rather depressing...

That's right. Not all Lutheran churches look like that, although a good deal of them do (in fact many modern Roman Catholic churches have a pretty sterile architecture too). The Lutheran church back home where I grew up was originally built as a Catholic church in the middle ages, well before the Lutheran reformation. When they decided to cut the ties with Rome, they didn't change much, most of the architecture was preserved, so there's a lot of interesting things even for small kids to see, statues, paintings, coats of arms of noble families on the wall... The first things you see when you enter the church is an ancient statue of the Virgin Mary with a candle or a votive lamp burning in front of it, and a huge statue of St. George and the dragon <- in my opinion the most exiting thing in the whole church as i was a kid. In the middle of the church there's also a big statue of St. Ann and St. Mary, also several other smaller statues of different saints.

 

[ModernDaySpyridon]

I have found a Western Rite Orthodox mission that isn't too far away. I personally am beginning to fall in love with the Byzantine Liturgy, but I am thinking it might be easier for my wife and kids to come along, if the Liturgy is at least somewhat familiar to them.

I think that it seems clear that WRO is a legitimate way to go, and I have never been, so I have no context with which to comment one way or the other, but I would say this; familiarity can be good, but I truly cherished the feeling that I was entering something more ancient and "other" than that which I had grown up with. Of course, my parish conducts the DL primarily in english, which likely made it easier to appreciate, but still.

 

[DavidBryan]

Could someone enumerate what things are strange or foreign in the Byzantine Rite that are mitigated in the Western ? IOW, what is done in the WR that makes a Westerner feel more at home ? Other than organs for keyboard pounders

Well--and this is coming from someone who converted to the Orthodox faith in spite of the Eastern Rite, who much preferred Western liturgy at the time, and who has since become a reader in an Eastern Rite jurisdiction (so I'm committed, happily, to the "other side") yet still retains a fondness and a friendship with the Western Rite parish in town (whew!)--I can tell you that some of the things that appealed to me were the streamlined liturgy (not as repetitive, much more linear in form and function, the solemn, quiet movements done in spoken (and not sung) voice, the austere, humble surroundings (that do include icons, btw, but just not as many, as imagery in general and iconography specifically didn't play as big a role in the West as it did in the East), the familiar chant/hymnography, the architecture and aesthetics--the sight of the gospel book being carried out in procession by the vested priest with crucifer proceeding is wonderful to behold--the bringing of Ash Wednesday and other pious western traditions into the Church and baptizing them with a full understanding of what they're for--all this and more is why the Western Rite can (although it remains to be seen if it will) be a welcome presence within the Orthodox family--a severed branch being grafted back into the Olive Tree of the Church, so to speak.

Hope this helps.

Rdr David

 

[Oblio]

Thanks David. I'm wondering if that is why our temple is so austere, or rather that our last priest from Belarus did not seem to want to adorn our walls with frescos (even if we had the $$ to do so)

 

[Mary of Bethany]

I think that it seems clear that WRO is a legitimate way to go, and I have never been, so I have no context with which to comment one way or the other, but I would say this; familiarity can be good, but I truly cherished the feeling that I was entering something more ancient and "other" than that which I had grown up with. Of course, my parish conducts the DL primarily in english, which likely made it easier to appreciate, but still.

That's pretty much the same reason I decided on Eastern Rite. WR would have seemed too much like remaining Anglican. Also, I wanted to experience worship as it was for most Orthodox, so that wherever I might travel, I would know the liturgy.

Mary

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

Well--and this is coming from someone who converted to the Orthodox faith in spite of the Eastern Rite, who much preferred Western liturgy at the time, and who has since become a reader in an Eastern Rite jurisdiction (so I'm committed, happily, to the "other side") yet still retains a fondness and a friendship with the Western Rite parish in town (whew!)--I can tell you that some of the things that appealed to me were the streamlined liturgy (not as repetitive, much more linear in form and function, the solemn, quiet movements done in spoken (and not sung) voice, the austere, humble surroundings (that do include icons, btw, but just not as many, as imagery in general and iconography specifically didn't play as big a role in the West as it did in the East), the familiar chant/hymnography, the architecture and aesthetics--the sight of the gospel book being carried out in procession by the vested priest with crucifer proceeding is wonderful to behold--the bringing of Ash Wednesday and other pious western traditions into the Church and baptizing them with a full understanding of what they're for--all this and more is why the Western Rite can (although it remains to be seen if it will) be a welcome presence within the Orthodox family--a severed branch being grafted back into the Olive Tree of the Church, so to speak.

Hope this helps.

Rdr David

Welcome to TAW, David. I've been here for several months now, and it's probably been my favorite Orthodox hangout. Lots of helpful exchanges. Thanks for that quick education in the WR.

 

[DavidBryan]

Welcome to TAW, David. I've been here for several months now, and it's probably been my favorite Orthodox hangout. Lots of helpful exchanges. Thanks for that quick education in the WR.

Hey, thanks! Good to be here. I actually have lurked here for a while but finally got the nerve to register. Won a quick reward of blessings and got my avatar "dressed up" right away, so to speak.

 

[isshinwhat]

July

Good site for those interested, especially the portion re: the visit to Clear Creek. One of my priest's fellow students at the Angelicum in Rome became a priest in the Western Rite of the Orthodox Church...

God Bless,

Neal

 

[isshinwhat]

http://www.westernorthodox.com/stmark/lion/