Westboro Baptists

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[skylark1]

Are the views and theology of Westboro Baptists representative of Orthodox Christianity?

Absolutely not!

 

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[PersephonesTear]

I'm not particularly referring to their actions so much as their theology. They claim to practice "primitive baptism".

I know that none of the traditional Baptist organizations claim any association with them. Mostly, I suppose, on the basis of their abrasive actions and extreme Biblical interpretations. (understandably)

What I am particularly interested in is; How does their theology differ from that of Orthodoxy? What theologically differentiates them from Orthodoxy?

Okay, at first I was going to say... "LOL... that's not a real question." But then you clarified it with the above statement. So...

I don't have an in depth understanding of their actual theology. But there are a couple of things that they have said that pop out at me which are in contrast to orthodox Christianity.

First - they are five point Calvinists. Even the strictest Baptist groups today are usually no more than four point Calvinists, and many are only three point Calvinists. The specific point that is usually rejected is the idea of Limited Atonement - the L in TULIP. Limited Atonement means that Jesus did not die to save the whole world, but rather he died ONLY to save the Elect. I guess the easiest scripture verse to remember that refutes the idea of Limited Atonement is John 3:16 - For God so loved the WORLD, not For God so loved the Elect.

Second - due to their rabid obsession with homosexuality, they seem to regard it as the unpardonable sin. I have seen them make comments in videos stating that homosexuals cannot repent because they are proud of their sin. Now, laying aside the fact that such a statement is not strictly true (I have known many homosexuals who are ashamed of themselves, unfortunately), it is also un-Biblical and goes against orthodox Christianity. Orthodox Christianity says that ANYONE can repent and that ANYONE can be saved at any moment. There is no one sin that is greater than any other, and there is nothing from which one may not be saved.

Third - the Westboro Baptist Church believes that "warning" people of their "sins" and the fact that their sins are taking them to hell is all that there is to "showing love" toward other people. I suppose they get this idea from the behavior of some of the Old Testament prophets. However, orthodox Christianity says that we follow the teachings and the example of Jesus - and he shared meals with sinners, stopped a crowd from stoning an adulterous woman, and took time out to minister to a woman who had had five husbands (someone the Westboro Baptist Church would have merely yelled at while flashing bright signs).

Now - there are many churches that fail on point Three there, but usually those churches still ideally believe that following Christ's example is the way to go. The Westboro Baptist Church would never admit that what they are doing is not, in fact, in line with what Jesus said and did.

 

[skylark1]

The following is from an NPR article. I think that is an unbiased source.

And even though they call themselves Baptist, Mark Potok at the Southern Poverty Law Center says their extreme theology sets it apart from any other church.

"Westboro Baptist Church is an organization that essentially has no friends whatsoever on the far right, the far left or anyplace in between," Potok says.​

Their extreme theology is a theology of hate. I refuse to link to their website, or quote from it. It isn't difficult to find from a google search. They have an entire page filled with quotes about hate from the Bible. They have taken the quotes out of context. Their theology is a theology of hate. They preach hatred, and they are consumed by hatred.

Orthodox Christianity is a theology of love. It is about the good news; the message of Jesus Christ or Messiah, his birth, life, death on the cross, and resurrection. It is about reconciling and restoring our relationship with God, the promise of the Holy Spirit, our Comforter and Helper, and the hope of salvation. It is a theology that is centered on God - a God who loves the world so much.

The Westboro Church is centered on a God who hates so much. A God who only exists in their minds.

I hope that helps.

 

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[A New Dawn]

First - they are five point Calvinists. Even the strictest Baptist groups today are usually no more than four point Calvinists, and many are only three point Calvinists. The specific point that is usually rejected is the idea of Limited Atonement - the L in TULIP. Limited Atonement means that Jesus did not die to save the whole world, but rather he died ONLY to save the Elect. I guess the easiest scripture verse to remember that refutes the idea of Limited Atonement is John 3:16 - For God so loved the WORLD, not For God so loved the Elect.

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a 3 point Calvinist. And a 4 point Calvinist is generally not considered a Calvinist, but an Amyraldist. Monergism :: Four-Point Calvinism

I am not sure where you get your information about Baptists, but there are many here on CF that are 5 point Calvinists.

 

[PersephonesTear]

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a 3 point Calvinist. And a 4 point Calvinist is generally not considered a Calvinist, but an Amyraldist. Monergism :: Four-Point Calvinism

I am not sure where you get your information about Baptists, but there are many here on CF that are 5 point Calvinists.

From the Bible classes I took at the Baptist high school that I attended.

It likely has to do with self-identification, in that case.

 

[Norah63]

Much information from this thread.
Then I take it that the Baptist denomination has no legal right to prevent a church from using that name.
Those who use the point three that Moonpup gave, think they are showing love to warn if they think someone is in the wrong. Just the hateful methods set them apart.
Are all Baptists following that man Calvin? Whatever degree of it they choose?

 

[A New Dawn]

No, not all Baptists are Calvinists. And Calvinists don't follow Calvin. They follow the Bible. They follow Jesus.

 

[PersephonesTear]

They follow the Bible. They follow Jesus.

LOL... That... defines every Christian.

 

[drstevej]

The term baptist is not trademarked nor is it a single denomination. If the name appears in a church it usually indicates that they reject infant baptism for believer's baptism.

Baptists historically have been divided over Calvinist issues. Some baptist groups/denominations/churches are Calvinist by confession, some reject Calvinism and still others are mixed allowing a variety of views to coexist.

Westboro is an unaffiliated/independent church. Their views are their own and not dictated by any higher church group/denomination. I have no respect for their tactics and reject many of their views as horrific.

What I do not see is any connection between their five point Calvinism and these aberrations. Such aberrations are also found in non-Calvinistic churches.

These are separate issues.

 

[A New Dawn]

LOL... That... defines every Christian.

Exactly. There is nothing a Calvinist believes that is not supported by the Bible.

 

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[Phantasman]

Yes. They are crusaders. Just as Jerry Falwell was with his Moral Majority. I remember when they took out the violent scenes from Bugs Bunny cartoons because they thought children would emulate them.

 

[Rescued One]

Much information from this thread.
Then I take it that the Baptist denomination has no legal right to prevent a church from using that name.
Those who use the point three that Moonpup gave, think they are showing love to warn if they think someone is in the wrong. Just the hateful methods set them apart.
Are all Baptists following that man Calvin? Whatever degree of it they choose?

General Baptists aren't Calvinists.
General Baptists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Free Will Baptists aren't.
Free Will Baptist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

General Association of General Baptists
General Association of General Baptists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Der Alte]

Are the views and theology of Westboro Baptists representative of Orthodox Christianity?

You have got to be kidding. Other than Westboro how many Baptist churches do you know of who travel 100s of mile to picket funerals? Are the views and theology of Warren Jeffs representative of LDS?

 

[Norah63]

Well that third point was what caught my eye. To warn people of when they someone beliefs are wrong, and doing it in a hateful manner.
Yipes have they the been on the forums or what?

 

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