West TX Children Treated for Vitamin A Toxicity Along Side Measles

[Hans Blaster]

Are any of them as high-profile, and have any presidents you're aware of in the last 40 years tapped such folks for the position?

Who cares if cabinet members are prominent before being appointed. Who ever heard of Howard Lutnik or the Ag Secretary lady or the Treasury Sec guy before they were named to the cabinet? (See how prominent they are, that I can't remember their names even now.) Most cabinet secretaries aren't that well known even to people who follow politics fairly widely. I've followed politics fairly well for the last decade and looking at Biden's cabinet, there are several (Blinken, Mayorkas, Raimondo, Walsh, Cardona, McDonough, and Austin) I had never heard of before their nominations. (And I only knew Beccera because he left the House to replace Harris as Calf. AG and Garland because he was nominated to the Supreme Court by Obama.) Fame is not required.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Who cares if cabinet members are prominent before being appointed. Who ever heard of Howard Lutnik or the Ag Secretary lady or the Treasury Sec guy before they were named to the cabinet? (See how prominent they are, that I can't remember their names even now.) Most cabinet secretaries aren't that well known even to people who follow politics fairly widely. I've followed politics fairly well for the last decade and looking at Biden's cabinet, there are several (Blinken, Mayorkas, Raimondo, Walsh, Cardona, McDonough, and Austin) I had never heard of before their nominations. (And I only knew Beccera because he left the House to replace Harris as Calf. AG and Garland because he was nominated to the Supreme Court by Obama.) Fame is not required.

On the flip side, there's also been...
Hillary Clinton
Colin Powell
Pete Buttigieg
Janet Yellen
Henry Stimson
Donald Rumsfeld
John Kerry
RFK Sr.
Elizabeth Dole


But to the 2nd part of what I mentioned, what are some names tapped by presidents to lead the public health departments who've spoken with that level of directness and clarity on the issues of obesity, diet, exercise, and chronic disease?

At the state level, we certainly see some concerning trends in that regard:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/sf-taps-body-positivity-expert-work-public-19989269.php

Just out of curiosity (given that obesity is a much bigger threat than measles, the numbers aren't even close), when California selects Virgie Tovar (a "plus size activist" and author of the book "you have a right to remain fat") to advise on matters of public health...in response to which, she issued the statement “I’m UNBELIEVABLY proud to serve the place I’ve called home for almost 20 years in this way! This consultancy is an absolute dream come true, and it’s my biggest hope and belief that weight neutrality will be the future of public health,”

...do you see that as more/less/equally problematic to the RFK Jr. situation?

(3 other states have started incorporating that same brand of bastardized version of "body positivity" into their public health messaging as well)


If people don't at least see that as equally problematic, if nothing else, then that means people have the mentality that vaccination is more crucial to individual and public health, than every other aspect combined.

There may be some who think that way, but as noted before, I suspect emphasis on vaccination is the "low hanging fruit" that's politically convenient.

"What's the public health topic that conservatives are the most stand-offish about? Vaccinations? Great, we'll put huge emphasis on that"

 

[Hans Blaster]

On the flip side, there's also been...
Hillary Clinton
Colin Powell
Pete Buttigieg
Janet Yellen
Henry Stimson
Donald Rumsfeld
John Kerry
RFK Sr.
Elizabeth Dole

Other than Stimson and Kennedy, you've mined the "famous" cabinet secretaries (well quite a few of them) from my entire adult life. I had to look up Stimson to know who he was and Kennedy wasn't famous, he was the president's little brother.

But to the 2nd part of what I mentioned, what are some names tapped by presidents to lead the public health departments who've spoken with that level of directness and clarity on the issues of obesity, diet, exercise, and chronic disease?

That sounds like what the Surgeon General gets on about. I could do without the diet stuff if it also got rid of the anti-vax stuff. (and quack cures stuff)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That sounds like what the Surgeon General gets on about. I could do without the diet stuff if it also got rid of the anti-vax stuff. (and quack cures stuff)

"We can do without the diet stuff so long as the public health leader is sufficiently pro-vaccine" is the formula that's led to 1/4 of our young adults (18-30) being pre-diabetic.

There are certain prominent health issues that we can't jab our way out of.

 

[Hans Blaster]

"We can do without the diet stuff so long as the public health leader is sufficiently pro-vaccine" is the formula that's led to 1/4 of our young adults (18-30) being pre-diabetic.

Without vaccines they'd all be dead anyway.

There are certain prominent health issues that we can't jab our way out of.

It is a compromise we don't need to make.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Without vaccines they'd all be dead anyway.

From measles?

Even prior to the measles vaccine existing, in the US, measles caused 400-500 deaths per year and 48,000 hospitalizations.

Would you like to take a wild guess at what the current numbers are for annual deaths and hospitalizations attributable to obesity?


The Lancet's estimates:
excess weight was responsible for more than 1300 excess deaths per day (nearly 500,000 per year) and a loss in life expectancy of nearly 2·4 years in 2016, contributing to higher excess mortality than smoking.

The CDC's estimates:
Obesity is a cause or contributing factor in more than 2.8 million hospital visits in the United States each year.

Obesity claims the lives of around 300,000 individuals in the United States each year.

It is a compromise we don't need to make.

More accurately, it's a compromise we shouldn't have to make...but ultimately, the onus is on other politicians to get out in front of that and start picking people to be the "vessel" of that messaging if they know those sorts of things are resonating with people.

Even prior to vaccines becoming a "hot topic", and despite measles reaching an "elimination" status, we've had 3 consecutive decades of increases in heart disease, cancer, and diabetes (along with a host of other chronic conditions)

...so clearly public health experts have been dropping the ball in that regard.


And another thing that certainly doesn't help... high profile publications trying to link exercise and nutrition to "extremism"

When that covid stuff was happening, in response to Rogan's rise in popularity, these started popping up:
Time Magazine did a piece called "The White Supremacist origins of Exercise"
MSNBC did one entitled: "Physical Fitness has gotten extreme - Literally"
The Guadian did one entitled: "The Wellness to Fascism pipeline"
LA Times did one where they tried to lump exercise in with white privilege
WaPo had done an Op-Ed that was called "America's weight loss obsession, and its racist origins"


So, with regards to the right-vs-left dynamic on this one, people are being forced to choose from two options that have baggage.

Eat less garbage, lose weight, and lift weights (with a little anti-vaxxerism sprinkled in)
vs.
Get vaccinated and avoid anything that could be remotely considered a "micro-aggression"

 

[durangodawood]

Are any of them as high-profile, and have any presidents you're aware of in the last 40 years tapped such folks for the position?

I dont understand how thats an argument against Trump being able to nominate one of those people.

Nor do I see RFK making much progress on the chronic disease front. Lets see what subsidies he cuts. My guess is Trump wont let him do anything important that upsets big ag.

The other problem is that if chronic disease is sooo important (it is) why on earth do we hitch that message to a man who's so quackish and woo? He's essentially dismissible.

 

[Hans Blaster]

From measles?

I didn't mention measles. Kennedy has worked against vaccines generally, not to mention the impact of his anti-vax positions on vaccine hesitancy. Then there are the quack cures from a ... lawyer. (See title.)

Even prior to the measles vaccine existing, in the US, measles caused 400-500 deaths per year and 48,000 hospitalizations.

Would you like to take a wild guess at what the current numbers are for annual deaths and hospitalizations attributable to obesity?


The Lancet's estimates:
excess weight was responsible for more than 1300 excess deaths per day (nearly 500,000 per year) and a loss in life expectancy of nearly 2·4 years in 2016, contributing to higher excess mortality than smoking.

The CDC's estimates:
Obesity is a cause or contributing factor in more than 2.8 million hospital visits in the United States each year.

Obesity claims the lives of around 300,000 individuals in the United States each year.





More accurately, it's a compromise we shouldn't have to make...but ultimately, the onus is on other politicians to get out in front of that and start picking people to be the "vessel" of that messaging if they know those sorts of things are resonating with people.

Even prior to vaccines becoming a "hot topic", and despite measles reaching an "elimination" status, we've had 3 consecutive decades of increases in heart disease, cancer, and diabetes (along with a host of other chronic conditions)

...so clearly public health experts have been dropping the ball in that regard.


And another thing that certainly doesn't help... high profile publications trying to link exercise and nutrition to "extremism"

When that covid stuff was happening, in response to Rogan's rise in popularity, these started popping up:
Time Magazine did a piece called "The White Supremacist origins of Exercise"
MSNBC did one entitled: "Physical Fitness has gotten extreme - Literally"
The Guadian did one entitled: "The Wellness to Fascism pipeline"
LA Times did one where they tried to lump exercise in with white privilege
WaPo had done an Op-Ed that was called "America's weight loss obsession, and its racist origins"


So, with regards to the right-vs-left dynamic on this one, people are being forced to choose from two options that have baggage.

Eat less garbage, lose weight, and lift weights (with a little anti-vaxxerism sprinkled in)
vs.
Get vaccinated and avoid anything that could be remotely considered a "micro-aggression"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I didn't mention measles. Kennedy has worked against vaccines generally, not to mention the impact of his anti-vax positions on vaccine hesitancy. Then there are the quack cures from a ... lawyer. (See title.)

As I laid out before, Vitamin A administration for someone with measles isn't a "quack cure". It's a WHO-recommended supportive care strategy. (I linked two different WHO articles showing where they recommend it for any child who contracts measles, regardless of where they live and regardless of whether or not malnourishment is a factor, because measles itself can cause Vitamin A to become depleted even if the person wasn't deficient beforehand)


And it's debatable whether or not he's actually causing more people to become "anti-vaxx", or if it's a merely a case where people who were already anti-vaxx gravitated towards him.


A question that I posed before but that nobody's really touched yet...

Why is RFK Jr's quackery "special" compared to the things listed before?

UCLA & UCSF university medical center offering acupuncture, naturopathic, and Ayurvedic services (all of which make false claims about "immunity boosting")... courtesy of the UCLA "Center for East-West Integrative Medicine".

Oregon and Washington state are using Medicaid funds to facilitate people going to naturopaths and homeopaths.

Why are they getting a pass? I would have to think that the UCLA name carries just as much influence.

 

[Hans Blaster]

As I laid out before, Vitamin A administration for someone with measles isn't a "quack cure". It's a WHO-recommended supportive care strategy. (I linked two different WHO articles showing where they recommend it for any child who contracts measles, regardless of where they live and regardless of whether or not malnourishment is a factor, because measles itself can cause Vitamin A to become depleted even if the person wasn't deficient beforehand)


And it's debatable whether or not he's actually causing more people to become "anti-vaxx", or if it's a merely a case where people who were already anti-vaxx gravitated towards him.

I'm not sure what about this would make some one with bad ideas about medicine with no administrative experience should run a huge health agency.

A question that I posed before but that nobody's really touched yet...

Why is RFK Jr's quackery "special" compared to the things listed before?

I think you mean below.

UCLA & UCSF university medical center offering acupuncture, naturopathic, and Ayurvedic services (all of which make false claims about "immunity boosting")... courtesy of the UCLA "Center for East-West Integrative Medicine".

They should stop. This is not "evidence based medicine".

Oregon and Washington state are using Medicaid funds to facilitate people going to naturopaths and homeopaths.

They shouldn't. It isn't medicine.

Why are they getting a pass?

I don't know. There are states that have licensed quack treatments like naturopathy and homeopathy and we need to fight against that too. (No one needs to list all of the bad medical practices to criticize one of the.)

I would have to think that the UCLA name carries just as much influence.

In what way?

 

[sfs]

I think he gained support due to how he speaks to the issues food/diet/nutrition.

Based on polling, among people who don't necessarily agree with his views on vaccines... the following aspects resonated with a lot of people.

• Focus on Chronic Disease: Kennedy's emphasis on addressing chronic health issues, such as obesity and diabetes, resonated with large segments of the population concerned about these widespread problems.
• Critique of Processed Foods: His critiques of processed foods and calls for better nutrition policies appealed to those advocating for healthier food systems.
• Distrust in Health Institutions: Some supporters shared a general skepticism toward established health organizations and appreciated Kennedy's calls for increased transparency and reform within agencies like the FDA and CDC.

I'd be in that cohort, I've stated numerous times that I think he's wrong about vaccines. But he does speak to the aforementioned issues in ways that no other high-profile person has that I'm aware of.

Unfortunately, "speaking to the issues" of chronic disease and processed foods is not the same as actually doing anything about them. One of the top NIH nutrition researchers just resigned because of censorship at the NIH, while also citing the negative effects of budget cuts: Leading Nutrition Scientist Departs N.I.H., Citing Censorship.