We're all animals; define morality.

[Ymeg]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat02.html

Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans are more closely related to modern apes than to monkeys, but we didn't evolve from apes, either. Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed
5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids.

We did not evolve from monkeys. The statement connecting us to them is false and unreliable to the issue presented. Monkies don't need to be as intelligent, likewise we did not have to be as strong. Comparing us to apes is similar to comparing us to plants.


Also,

WHY ONLY HUMANS INTELLECT HAS EXPLODED? If earth has been around for a so-called billion years, how can that be? Surely, if you believe in math, statistics, and reason, the odds say that can't happen.

I want to see your mathematical evidence for this fascinating claim.

 

[DArceri]

Technology is my proof.

 

[Ymeg]

Technology is my proof.

Oh, Thank you! It's all clear now.

 

[Tiberius]

This actually should help you understand why atheism is flawed. Do you not believe in morality of any kind. Is racism immoral? If you agree, please try to explain how, without the idea of a moral God. If nature is all there is, how can one say racism is wrong?

Why is it that you can't accept that people can get there morality anywhere else but God? I get my morality from a simple source - if it harms others or disadvantages someone unneccessarily, then it's immoral.

Thus, stealing is immoral, because it disadvantages someone. breaking someone's leg hurts someone, so it is immoral. Breaking someone's leg to free them from a burning building is neccessary to prevent possible greater harm, so that is not immoral.

I gotta wonder, if the only thing keeping a person moral is the idea of God, what sort of person would they really be if God doesn't exist?

 

[DArceri]

Why is it that you can't accept that people can get there morality anywhere else but God? I get my morality from a simple source - if it harms others or disadvantages someone unneccessarily, then it's immoral.

Thus, stealing is immoral, because it disadvantages someone. breaking someone's leg hurts someone, so it is immoral. Breaking someone's leg to free them from a burning building is neccessary to prevent possible greater harm, so that is not immoral.

I gotta wonder, if the only thing keeping a person moral is the idea of God, what sort of person would they really be if God doesn't exist?

...people can get there morality anywhere else but God

So you admit morality comes from someone, whether from you or somebody else. If you say it is from you, then where did you get it from? If it is from someone else, then who?

 

[Seekermeister]

Tiberius,

What makes you believe that you are the author of your own morality? Just because you don't perceive God's influence on you, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

 

[Seekermeister]

Ymeg,

What happened to your homosexual animals thread?

 

[Tiberius]

So you admit morality comes from someone, whether from you or somebody else. If you say it is from you, then where did you get it from? If it is from someone else, then who?

it looks like you are asking me, even though the second quote in your post is not mine.

In any case, you seem to be assuming that moral values cannot come from the person who holds those values. Why is that? Why am I unable to create my own moral values without needing an outside source for them?

And to an extent, people's moral values are formed from their upbringing. Not completely, but the way a person is raised can have a huge influence on their moral values.

Tiberius,

What makes you believe that you are the author of your own morality? Just because you don't perceive God's influence on you, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

And what you feel is the influence of God may be nothing but a part of you which you ascribe to God unneccessarily.

 

[DArceri]

Why am I unable to create my own moral values without needing an outside source for them?

You can, so let me ask you this. Do you think the moral values of society today in America is declining, staying the same, or increasing? And whose standards are you basing that on? Is it societies standards as a whole? If a society starts going morally bankrupt, does that mean we should go with the flow to conform to society? Where is the "plumb-line" to moral standards? How do we know when society is getting morally corrupt?

 

[Seekermeister]

Tiberius,

And what you feel is the influence of God may be nothing but a part of you which you ascribe to God unneccessarily.

As difficult as it may be for you to swallow, I'm not saying anything based on feelings.

 

[Ymeg]

Ymeg,

What happened to your homosexual animals thread?

It got deleted for

I deleted your thread Homosexuality in animals. on 02-15-2007 because: 3.5 and forum guidelines.

You can, so let me ask you this. Do you think the moral values of society today in America is declining, staying the same, or increasing*1? And whose standards are you basing that on*2? Is it societies standards as a whole*3? If a society starts going morally bankrupt, does that mean we should go with the flow to conform to society*4? Where is the "plumb-line" to moral standards*5? How do we know when society is getting morally corrupt*6?

1. I believe the ethical standards are changing.
2. I do not need to base anything to make the previous statement.
3. If societies standards are changing previously shunned would be accepted and allowed would be disallowed. You cannot define an entire society.
4. You are attempting to set a clear line on what is wrong and right. This is incorrect for two reasons. 1 - Its ever changing based on the views of the worlds and 2 - opinionated.
5. ?
6. When societies standards do not change and everyone is doing the taboo

Really these questions don't do anything for your case.


Also, I welcome the other person to comment on this... mods don't delete w/ permission?

 

[Davis]

This sounds like a debate more than serious questioning.

 

[nestoj]

We’re all animals?
I’m going to quote my spiritual father:

A man claiming to be atheist ones came to me. “What is the reason you believe the God exist?” he asked. “Have you seen, or herd him?”. I believe that he truly wanted fair answers, but whatever I said to him wasn’t good enough, or convincing enough. Questions just kept coming. Than he started to mock me – “Are those your reasons, there is no real reason in them, convincing evidence even less.”. Man of God, do you here what you are saying? – I asked. “I do, and I completely stand behind all I’ve said.” – He replied. Ape, do you here what you are saying? – I asked again. Man turned and started to walk away. I stopped him – Please forgive me my child – I’ve said – have I offended you. He wasn’t replaying. Than, tell me something – You are an atheist, and refuse that God exist, yet when I told you “Man of God, do you here what you are saying?” you found nothing to be angry of, not even anything to be corrected. In the same time, you truly believe that you are evolved monkey, yet when I told you “Ape, do you here what you are saying?”, you ware angry and wanted to leave. Your reason could not have told you to do this, because he would have told that in essence you truly are the ape, and should not be angry. So who told you that you are being offended? Go now and think of this, but I will tell you this – every man is temple of Holly Spirit, and he reacts even when our mind is blind.

Father Rade, Church of St. Nicolas, Nis​

God helps!

 

[Tiberius]

You can, so let me ask you this. Do you think the moral values of society today in America is declining, staying the same, or increasing? And whose standards are you basing that on? Is it societies standards as a whole? If a society starts going morally bankrupt, does that mean we should go with the flow to conform to society? Where is the "plumb-line" to moral standards? How do we know when society is getting morally corrupt?

I really wouldn't know. I'm in Australia. But I think that it's important for a society to make sure that everyone has the same rights. To deny people rights that are given to others is, I think, immoral.

 

[DArceri]

I really wouldn't know. I'm in Australia. But I think that it's important for a society to make sure that everyone has the same rights. To deny people rights that are given to others is, I think, immoral.

Do you hear what you are saying? So if the Australian govenrment gave everyone the right to have orgies on public beaches and porn on public T.V., you'd be ok with that? You need to be honest with yourself, I know some people would think that would be great.

 

[DArceri]

It got deleted for

1. I believe the ethical standards are changing.
2. I do not need to base anything to make the previous statement.
3. If societies standards are changing previously shunned would be accepted and allowed would be disallowed. You cannot define an entire society.
4. You are attempting to set a clear line on what is wrong and right. This is incorrect for two reasons. 1 - Its ever changing based on the views of the worlds and 2 - opinionated.
5. ?
6. When societies standards do not change and everyone is doing the taboo

Really these questions don't do anything for your case.


Also, I welcome the other person to comment on this... mods don't delete w/ permission?

See response to post#35